isoHunt sues CRIA in self defense, Round 2

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:25 pm

RonSams87 wrote:

However, as it currently stands, copyright laws do exist. Therefore, by downloading copyrighted material, we are snakes, (slithering through loopholes in the system.) Perhaps it is a bad analogy. Just because you disagree with a law does not mean that it is right to break said law. Correct me if I am wrong. I choose to download copyrighted material because it is available to me for free, and free, to me, is better than not free.

MegaHeavy wrote:

If any mistakes are made within a foundation the whole structure needs to be rebuilt! Period!!!...

You cannot build a house on top of a faulty foundation,, it will collapse!!! Maybe [not] overnight, but over time and gradually the structure will start to crumble and fall, nothing can be done and sooner or later the building needs to be destroyed totally demolished due to utter instability!...

To make this claim, you must have supporting evidence to show that copyright laws are in a state of "utter instability!" But as is evident from the numbers, movies are still making a profit, software is still selling, and not everyone uses a BitTorrent protocol.

Your opinion, while it may be worthwhile to some, is not a valid argument for the demolition of copyright laws. If you, personally, create a piece of software, you may choose to distribute it as freeware; no one is stopping you. But you cannot tell others that what they create must be distributed for free. To force a person to share with the world, for free, that which he creates, is borderline socialist. " Socialism refers to . . . a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals." Likely, you are writing from a country whose economy is one of capitalism. Therefore, you are going to have to cover a lot more bases than simply digital medium. Why doesn't BMW give away a free M5 to everyone? They made it. They own it. If you want a piece of it, you ought to pay. However, if someone offered me a free BMW, I would take it instantly, as would you, I assume. That is the current situation with digital movies, games, and applications, and that is why I choose to download them.

There is no need in altering any comments as indicated by “[not]” and then defend what I never said??..
Over time buildings will collapse due to a corrupt foundation, just as copyright is also staring to collapse!!

So its ok to download copyright material because of loopholes in the system but others should still obey that law even though they totally disagree with that law??

Thats the reason we are in this mess because the law is trying to enforce control we never want.

This is why the majority want to see change, and even though change should happen there is blatant disregard for the present laws and many are continuing to download, as they realise the system is inconsistent with how they feel, think, and operate, breaking the laws regardless!!!
(I already addressed your comments regarding the need for sharing in my 2nd to last of this post which you agreed)..

Nobody can profit in a system where everything is shared, but many never realise that we all can benefit. Money is never needed!
Many can never envision a society without the need for money that the current system is built upon!!
why would we ever need money when we could share everything for free? (like most P2P sites)
(Even physical objects)!

The foundation of copyright and its operations are starting to fail and crumble.
(The ship is sinking!!!)

RonSams87 wrote:

I doubt you could be insinuating that I somehow advocated slavery. The point of my argument was that demolishing a societal foundation (and yes, unfortunately, slavery was a foundation of the American economy) can, and will, have bad repercussions. The issue must be addressed and an alternative must be presented. I am not advocating the abolition of copyright law, merely the improvement of it. If you wish to erase copyright law, you ought to have a better alternative than "no copyright laws." That might work well for those of us who receive free material, but it would not be fair to those who created the material. Change requires compromise, my friend, as does this discussion.

RonSams87 wrote:

Slavery was a mistake. Copyright laws have mistakes. Giving every slave 40 acres and a mule in 1865 was not a sufficient solution. Giving away everyone's creative works for free is not a sufficient solution.

The same system that stared slavery is also the same corrupt foundation that introduced copyright!

So because demolishing a corrupt society built upon a corrupt foundation will cause bad repercussions; for who?:
The slaves because of racial prejudice, or the societal system because nobody can continue to profit from it???

So you improve the same system so everybody can stay a slave because of profits???

RonSams87 wrote:

The system needs to be changed, not abolished. Copyright laws are not enslaving people. Slavery was enslaving people. Rather, copyright laws are protecting people, the people who create movies, music, and software. However, they are doing so inadequately, which is why there is a need for change.

Thats why we are seeing a fight because the system wants to keep the population enslaved to it.

This is why the heading of this forum is called “isoHunt sues CRIA in self defense, Round 2”

From my previous 4th post:

MegaHeavy wrote:

"Obviously copyright does not work so well to protect the original creator after someone claims copyright even when they may not be the original author of works just to make money from it!
(Most , if not all inventions and so called authors of works have been stolen from other individuals, countries or brought over to the west under a copyright for investment front!!)"

Respects!..

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:14 am

MegaHeavy wrote:

Nobody can profit in a system where everything is shared, but many never realise that we all can benefit. Money is never needed!
Many can never envision a society without the need for money that the current system is built upon!!
why would we ever need money when we could share everything for free? (like most P2P sites)
(Even physical objects)!

I completely agree that "many can never envision a society without the need for money." As they say, "money makes the world go 'round." I, personally, can envision a world without money. However, I cannot envision a way to make that change. If we use your approach, "abolish the system," just imagine the utter chaos that the world would exhibit if we were to erase money overnight. As idealistically benevolent your thoughts may be, it doesn't change the fact that you cannot change the world into an "all for one, one for all" mindset without an extremely well thought out plan and a considerable amount of time to allow everyone to become acquainted to the new system.

To give you an example of why the world is not ready for this type of system, just consider taxes. Taxes aim to redistribute money, making it so that your ideology becomes more of a reality (sharing). But already, there is extreme opposition to taxation. People want that which they feel is rightfully theirs. You are suggesting a system which, in effect, proposes a 100% taxation rate. Even if money doesn't exist, this still is equivalent to a 100% taxation rate. It suggests that for whatever you create, however much you work, you get compensated no more than anyone else. If people desired that, the government would have no problem instituting such a system. That fact that it has not done so indicates that people do not want to share everything freely.

MegaHeavy wrote:

So because demolishing a corrupt society built upon a corrupt foundation will cause bad repercussions; for who?:
The slaves because of racial prejudice, or the societal system because nobody can continue to profit from it???

Bad repercussions will result for everyone. People won't know what to do with themselves if you erase money. Money is the blood of economy. Take away the blood and you take away life.

Human beings are incentive-based creatures. People work harder if they know they will profit from their efforts. (Profit doesn't necessarily mean more money. Profit can be something as simple as the joy one receives from a well cooked dinner. One might spend more time cooking if he knows that the food will taste better the more effort he puts into it.) Right now, money equals incentive. With money one can enjoy a better life. If there were no incentive to hard work, people wouldn't work hard. If no matter what you did, the outcome didn't change, would you waste your time? If dinner tasted the exact same whether you cooked for 3 minutes or 30 minutes, would you waste the extra time cooking? Only if you truly received joy from the act of cooking would you choose to spend 30 minutes on it, knowing that the result would be the same, regardless of time spent.

MegaHeavy wrote:

From my previous 4th post:
"Obviously copyright does not work so well to protect the original creator after someone claims copyright even when they may not be the original author of works just to make money from it!
(Most , if not all inventions and so called authors of works have been stolen from other individuals, countries or brought over to the west under a copyright for investment front!!)"

I give you credit on this evaluation. Very valid. This addresses one of the issues with copyright laws and is evidence that copyright law needs to be changed. I don't have the perfect solution. However, the solution certainly is not abolition of copyright.

Sincerely,
RonSams87

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:45 pm

RonSams87 wrote:

Bad repercussions will result for everyone. People won't know what to do with themselves if you erase money. Money is the blood of economy. Take away the blood and you take away life.

RonSams87 wrote:

I completely agree that "many can never envision a society without the need for money." As they say, "money makes the world go 'round." I, personally, can envision a world without money. However, I cannot envision a way to make that change. If we use your approach, "abolish the system," just imagine the utter chaos that the world would exhibit if we were to erase money overnight. As idealistically benevolent your thoughts may be, it doesn't change the fact that you cannot change the world into an "all for one, one for all" mindset without an extremely well thought out plan and a considerable amount of time to allow everyone to become acquainted to the new system.

Well the economic system has been established so money is the wheel that currently keeps it in motion, operation and function.
The system uses grate force, strong “rules” to frighten the population to “work” and enslaves many individuals to it.
(Anything outside of this system is considered against the law or heretical)

Independence from the system means that they who were once suppressed from sharing new technologies and great ideas for the world, literally destroying the current system of control would no longer be forbidden and able to administer the introduction of new Electric vehicles, devices and other advanced technologies that would move society away from the dependence for money, fossil fuels or profit to a more sustainable future.

Many are using File Sharing sites and the numbers are increasing daily, Money is never needed and the world is not in total chaos or utter distress! Actually many have expressed liberation freedom great sense of well being happiness and enjoyment, living better lives..

In an economy without money people would spend more time sharing creative ideas without the need to work or forced to share anything, everyone would be happy because every need would be met!..

Freedom disrupts the current system because the slave masters can no longer excerpt control or power over the population.

You said it yourself:

RonSams87 wrote:

if someone offered me a free BMW, I would take it instantly, as would you, I assume. That is the current situation with digital movies, games, and applications, and that is why I choose to download them.

This system seeks to suppress anything that would be considered detrimental against its function.
The world is not crying over P2P due to so many millions showing a benevolent attitude!!!....

RonSams87 wrote:

To give you an example of why the world is not ready for this type of system, just consider taxes. Taxes aim to redistribute money, making it so that your ideology becomes more of a reality (sharing). But already, there is extreme opposition to taxation. People want that which they feel is rightfully theirs. You are suggesting a system which, in effect, proposes a 100% taxation rate. Even if money doesn't exist, this still is equivalent to a 100% taxation rate. It suggests that for whatever you create, however much you work, you get compensated no more than anyone else. If people desired that, the government would have no problem instituting such a system. That fact that it has not done so indicates that people do not want to share everything freely.

(thats weak!!)

Taxes are based on an economic system where people are forced to work based on income for production, exchange, distribution, and consumption of goods.

Income tax is a tax paid based on an amount of income dependant on how many hours you work your age and the mount that is made.
(It has nothing to do with sharing)!

Without an economy income would not exit and you cannot have 100% taxation rate!! Because there would be no taxation to take on the income!! Period..

In an Economy not all types of income are taxable and it will seldom be the case that all of your income is taxed.

You cannot have 100% Taxation rate in or outside of an economy because you would never earn anything.
People would be forced to work for free whether they liked it or not and that would be forced slave labour.

People want 100% free downloads free file sharing and free everything but the corporations and government are not listening, they see it as a problem and a threat to the current system of control.

You are wholly 100% mistaken!! Thats why you want a free BMW!! Most everybody on this site and most P2P sites in the world are downloading all manner of files because they prefer not to pay!!!
(sorry but most people want to share and download thing for free)

RonSams87 wrote:

Human beings are incentive-based creatures. People work harder if they know they will profit from their efforts. (Profit doesn't necessarily mean more money. Profit can be something as simple as the joy one receives from a well cooked dinner. One might spend more time cooking if he knows that the food will taste better the more effort he puts into it.) Right now, money equals incentive. With money one can enjoy a better life. If there were no incentive to hard work, people wouldn't work hard. If no matter what you did, the outcome didn't change, would you waste your time? If dinner tasted the exact same whether you cooked for 3 minutes or 30 minutes, would you waste the extra time cooking? Only if you truly received joy from the act of cooking would you choose to spend 30 minutes on it, knowing that the result would be the same, regardless of time spent.

Human beings are not incentive base creatures but you may be an incentive base person and I already answered these questions in my previous posts. it seems your just cutting pasting, repeating and rearranging the same questions trying to come up with something new when you already lost the argument couple posts ago!!!

The incentive one receives from the enjoyment of doing something is different from profit and money based on income and how much you earn. Even though you may enjoy working for profit.

I dont really enjoy cooking but sometimes I have to wait 1 or 2 hours because I need to eat..

I download from the internet, I watch movies, I listening to free music
I also enjoy giving things away for free! I am so happy I never made any financial profit!!!

MegaHeavy wrote:

People are selfish because they are born into a societal system that promotes teaching of selfish acts and profiting off the suffering of others.

Its every man woman for them self, not turning a blinds eye if others get trampled in the process. As long as I get what I want and “stuff you” mentality!!..

As children we are taught by most parents that we must share things and give to others!

This very site IsoHunt is a place where people are sharing regardless of profit or whether they will receive or get anything in return,, its a SELFLESS acts of giving as taught by the core foundations of the very nature of our humanity, that we should give motivated with the incentive to create for the benefit of others and the sharing of ideas!!

Creativity naturally comes from within but society exploits creativity and demands Hard Work and control over creative efforts for profit which otherwise would have been shared by all or given away for free.
(Probably the reason why your hear so you can share stuff)

This need for sharing is what they who control the system hate.
This is why copyright needs to be abolished because it cant work in a new system or society that promotes unconditional sharing of everything

I think its time to call it a day with all these posts until the next time!! Happy file sharing, I hope you make lots of profit from the free downloads...

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:35 pm

MegaHeavy wrote:

In an economy without money people would spend more time sharing creative ideas without the need to work or forced to share anything, everyone would be happy because every need would be met!..

Did you actually say that? How would every need be met without the need to work? That's ludicrous. Do you think that our world could function if everyone sat at their computers sharing movies and music all day? If no one were working, no one would be creating music. (That's work.)

MegaHeavy wrote:

RonSams87 wrote:

To give you an example of why the world is not ready for this type of system, just consider taxes. Taxes aim to redistribute money, making it so that your ideology becomes more of a reality (sharing). But already, there is extreme opposition to taxation. People want that which they feel is rightfully theirs. You are suggesting a system which, in effect, proposes a 100% taxation rate. Even if money doesn't exist, this still is equivalent to a 100% taxation rate. It suggests that for whatever you create, however much you work, you get compensated no more than anyone else. If people desired that, the government would have no problem instituting such a system. That fact that it has not done so indicates that people do not want to share everything freely.

(thats weak!!)

Taxes are based on an economic system where people are forced to work based on income for production, exchange, distribution, and consumption of goods.

Income tax is a tax paid based on an amount of income dependant on how many hours you work your age and the mount that is made.
(It has nothing to do with sharing)!

Without an economy income would not exit and you cannot have 100% taxation rate!! Because there would be no taxation to take on the income!! Period..

Are you deaf, dumb, and blind? You obviously did not hear, read, nor understand what I wrote. Reread the part where I said that receiving no payment for your work is equivalent to a 100% taxation rate. If you work and receive nothing in return it's as though the government took all of your money and will redistribute it to you and the rest of society equally, like the current tax system aims to do. That is why, in effect, receiving no payment upfront for your work is equivalent to a 100% taxation rate. I don't want to belabor the point, so please try to understand it this time.

MegaHeavy wrote:

You cannot have 100% Taxation rate in or outside of an economy because you would never earn anything.
People would be forced to work for free whether they liked it or not and that would be forced slave labour.

Case and point. You just sealed your fate. You advocated people working for the greater good, rather than personal betterment. That's working for free. Or as you so eloquently put it, "forced slave labor."

MegaHeavy wrote:

Thats why you want a free BMW!!

I said I would accept a free BMW if it were offered to me, not that I want one. Please don't put words into my mouth.

MegaHeavy wrote:

Human beings are not incentive base creatures

Now you are just lying in order to disagree with me. Humans are incentive based creatures. We work harder when the stakes are higher. Maybe you should look up the definition of incentive .

MegaHeavy wrote:

I dont really enjoy cooking but sometimes I have to wait 1 or 2 hours because I need to eat..

So, you admit that the incentive of cooking, the ability to eat the food, is worth an hour or two of work. You are incentive based. The incentive is that cooking for an hour or two will satisfy your need to eat, therefore, you cook.

MegaHeavy wrote:

Happy file sharing, I hope you make lots of profit from the free downloads...

I did not say, nor did I imply, that I wished to make profits from free downloading. It might help you if, rather than attacking every minute detail that I cite as evidence for my argument, you attempt to understand what I am saying. Then, you could post evidence supporting your claim, rather than just attacking mine.

Sincerely,
RonSams87

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:44 pm

Many people create because they love to do it, whether or not you think of it as work is kind of beside the point.

something I would worry about in that world is the handling of ...say waste products and sewage, I have have a hard time seeing people doing that for no real reason.

This thought that without financial motivation the entire world would instantly grind to a halt as everyone did absolutely nothing, I don't believe though.

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:16 am

Crooked_Ferret wrote:

something I would worry about in that world is the handling of ...say waste products and sewage, I have have a hard time seeing people doing that for no real reason.

So true...

And dude, that is by far the greatest letter of complaint ever. My eyes teared up from laughing so hard.

Sincerely,
RonSams87

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:24 am

Dear Friend

TX for responding. Unfortunately you too are rationalizing after the fact, as I strongly believe that you would have gone to see Avatar no matter what.

At least you seem to display some level of a cognitive dissonance, which is represented here in this forum so strongly. People simply feel guilty and somewhat ashamed, which is why you find here these at times excellently written pieces. We all, after all are to a vast majority no criminals, never shoplift or robb a bank. So deep down we all know that we move in the greyzone, when we download, leat alone distribute back, while we try to comfort ourselves with the idea that this is some form of gentlemen's delict.

In the end it is what it is. We use our technical savyy to take advantage as opposed to the many not aware of the technology. Picture this for a second, that the people who surf the internet were aware of this possibility to the same extent as they write e-mails. A huge majority would of course also begin to do the same - heck, there is something for free to be had ...

There is no doubt in my mind, that the entire industry is in dire need of a complete overhaul in terms of copyright protection. Taking sites to court is not the solution - it will have to be a technology preventing people from physically copying DVDs and CDs. Until then, I myself will try to be reasonable and give back in some other form.

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:33 am

http://torrentfreak.com/3-strikes-coming-to-the-united-states-via-the-back-door-100128/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Torrentfreak+%28Torrentfreak%29

I mean wtf i really dont want to live in the usa or anywhere anymore. we can never be free due to the rich f***s always wanting more money i mean come the f**k on u cock suckers get a life other than money...

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:25 am

This is ridiculous.
File-Sharer Says “No” to RIAA’s $25k Offer To Settle

They wanted $1.92 million dollars because she shared 24 songs with Kazaa.

Secretary: "Uhm, hey judge, are you sure that the punishment fits the crime?"
Judge: "Yeah, you're right. Let's just make it an even billion..."

Next thing you know, the RIAA will be advocating the death penalty. To everyone: please stop, think, then act.

Sincerely,
RonSams87

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:35 am

thumper2068 if you wish to participate in these forums watch the language this is a 13+ site and that is unnecessary.here are the rules.

http://isohunt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=206277

Obscene or vulgar language, there are many other adjectives that can be used apart from f**king etc., try a thesaurus it might just widen your vocabulary.

more rules

https://isohunt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=231147#231147

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:42 pm

Agreed, the last few days there has been some great debate about the topic.
I myself have not posted recently but followed the replies. Informative argumentative in the positive sense and then suddenly out f the blue a comment that does nothing to help but purely destroy.

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:34 pm

I will contribute this last piece to the discussion!:

There is one fundamental problem that most seem to over look!!

That even if copyright is updated or changed and free sharing is allowed by the population?
How does one make any money?

You cant have free sharing and a right to make a profit at the same time!!!
(Well you can but who will actually pay?)

All copyright was originally intended to do was to preserve the Authors of a piece of work!! It was never intended to restrict its use of how that work would be distributed shared, or stopping others from enjoying it benefits!!!

But over the years copyright has been updated to restrict use, and we now see a perverted system of copyright used to make monetary profit back to the Author or anyone that holds a copyright!

Some people argue that judges, law makers should be bound to original intent of the “Constitution” and if not, individuals are then freed from the restraint of that law. Some judges argue it is their obligation to keep the times in tune with the “Constitution” and not the “Constitution” in tune with the times.

Now, times are not in tune with the “Constitution” and the “Constitution” needs a retune, its out of tune!!!

Its just a play on words, law makers know this, because for something to be in tune, Its is considered to be in harmony and clearly the times are not in harmony with the “Constitution”.
(we are now free from that law because its totally out of tune!)

If one cannot envision a way to make a change in the world without copyright. Then they cannot envision a world with that change!!

Incentive is usually used for monetary profit!!
Just because one loves doing something it does not mean they will receive anything in return and therefore cannot always be considered, an incentive!!!

As the saying of that movies goes.. “The Matrix has you” !!!

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:26 pm

Sorry for posting twice! and:
Sorry if causing any bad feeling!!! Instead of continuing a great informative discussion it was cut short due to insult.

Anyway lets be adult about this and continues another time when the time arises!!

After all if we are to see any change that we all want for the future to hold, then we need to resolve our differences and continue forward!!

we can still debate and discus opposing ideas, after all how is anyone going to understand anything if nothing is talked about, creating avenues for a better future? but let us indeed put down words that destroy.!

Respects and Apologies goes out to RonSams87 / johnno23 and everyone else following the discussion!!!
Signing off!!

MegaHeavy..

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:14 pm

mega, no need to apologise, your views may differ from that of others but are respected and discussed. I was reacting to a post that nephilim also reacted to. It was a post that took discussion out of the topic and was little more than a swearing rant. Fortunately it has in the meantime been somewhat edited.
A difference of opinion is always welcome. Disagreement in debate is actually healthy as it forces one to think and clarify their points and arguments.
This topic and the number of replies will continue to increase as time goes by and i found it refreshing to read over the last days.

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:49 pm

I would like to say thank you to everyone who has participated in this forum. It has been a pleasure to hear other people's thoughts and views. Many things were brought to my attention and I feel that I learned a lot just by sharing ideas with one another.

MegaHeavy, I apologize for the frustration that I allowed to be expressed in my previous post. I am enthralled that we were allowed this opportunity to speak our minds.

And please don't sign off. Your views are respectable and I hope to hear more from you and everyone else.

A sincere "thank you" to isoHunt for allowing us the venue to share ideas. Without you, we would all be in the dark.

Sincerely,
RonSams87