isoHunt sues CRIA in self defense, Round 2

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:17 pm

www.ninemsn.com.au

Judge rules in favour of iiNet Australia.

10:31 AEST Thu Feb 4 2010

A Federal Court judge has found that internet provider iiNet cannot be held responsible for unauthorised downloads of movies on the internet.

A syndicate of studios, headed by Village Roadshow, had hoped to prove iiNet not only failed to take steps to stop illegal file-sharing by customers but breached copyright itself by storing and transmitting the data through its system.

But Justice Dennis Cowdroy on Thursday found that it was "impossible" to find against iiNet for what its users did.

"It is impossible to conclude that iiNet has authorised copyright infringement ... (it) did not have relevant power to prevent infringements occurring," Justice Cowdroy said in his judgment.

The judge recommended the application be dismissed and that the consortium of studios pay the court costs.

Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:40 pm

Hi all:

I agree with the posts that say that most users download something to listen too or watch before spending money to buy it. However, there are a whole range of items (music, anime and movies) that were produced ages ago and no longer available for sale. These items are usually only available as a torrent because somebody uploaded it in the first place so that the material is available which in some cases has caused updated versions of the material to be sold. We need an overhaul of the system so that there is more flexibility for the creator of the item and better ways of distributing the material.

Confused

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:46 pm

News from the front. Closing and transfer Torrents.ru

Try through the translator link at the bottom:
http://translate..(ru)/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=KOI8-R&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fserj-nickel.livejournal.com%2F139844.html&sl=ru&tl=en&swap=1

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:14 am

Hi there I would be lost without you guys and girls. I hate american laws on he torrent things if you need to do something fast I know the canadian laws will allow it. So why not make it a Canadian website (i.e. a new name mytorrent.ca or .com .org) And you guys run it but from a canadian server host. Then you will be safe under Canadian laws for it is a canadian myself and I know the laws of this country. OH yes our singer and performers DO ALLOW US to download music to torrents as well they told the government to back off and the govrenment did for they stood behind the people of Canada. All the best guys love the site and I will be glad to help out with the bata testing of isohuntlite.

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:56 pm

before reading this article and the posts. i couldnt understand why i got a letter with my xbox's ip address (my consoles have a dedicated modem) saying i was downloading some crappy movie using utorrent. I dont even use u torrent, my Ubuntu cames with its own torrent download app. Anyway, laws are created by the guys in the expensive suits that fly to work, the government is just as corrupt as the money hungry corporate company that got these anti sharing laws to pass. for the right price the government will grant you pretty much anything you want. just look at apple for instance they have copyrighted the most general things on their iPhone, that they are suing HTC for copyright infringement because they have a slider that unlocks the screen. thats like copyrighting the letter E. thats just an example of b,s that governments allow and grant these company's to do, i have downloaded music and movies from mininova and other sites, but i still have paid for movies and music and software my dvd collection is still growing and they are legal copies. and if i want to share them with my friends and family that live far away from me, i dont see the crime in uploading my dvd that i paid for and sharing it, the way i see it i paid for it, its my property and ill share it with who i want in any form i want. if they gonna slap me with a sharing law, then even though you pay for something its not yours, your just paying to borrow it till you throw it the garbage, These laws and these people that actually create them are just greedy blood suckers, squeezing the working class for every little penny they can get. ISOHUNT I SUPPORT YOUR FIGHT AS I SUPPORTED SUPRNOVA, MININOVA. AND A FEW OTHER SITES THAT WERE TAKEN DOWN BECAUSE OF BS SHARING LAWS. THAT CAN TAKE DOWN P2P AND WELL COME UP WITH SOMETHING ELSE, WHERE THERES A WILL THERES A WAY. WE WILL STAND OUR GROUND, AND PUSH BACK. WE SHOULD BOYCOTT THEM, ONE DAY WITHOUT PROFITS WILL SHOW THEM WHO IS REALLY IN CONTROL.

Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:03 pm

As a musician who's been playing in punk and hardcore bands for almost 9 years-- and recalls when only certain kinds of people used the internet (Usenet groups and IRC anyone?)-- I'd like to give my input per request.

Some of this may be a bit biased coming from a musician's point of view, namely independent. But I'm just going to speak from my life experience, observations and studies.

I can see why, from the business point of view, the recording industry feels that P2P is their downfall. A lot of people will just download albums without paying for them thus it negates the need to buy CDs or digital downloads from iTunes, Amazon, and so forth. HOWEVER-- P2P is a two way street that happens to open up doors that these closed-minded execs simply don't see. The recording industry as a whole namely markets to young people; therefore it needs to adapt to ever-changing mediums and attitudes. And while a consumer such as a college student would be more willing to spend $15 on a CD or iTunes album, they may not be able to do so, therefore P2P is a viable alternative to check out artists they wouldn't have been too quick to put down money for. So even though that person doesn't buy the album, it could lead them to buy other merchandise the band puts out and buy concert tickets. That's one way the P2P street goes.

The other way it goes is that it's a great-- and sometimes the ONLY-- way to get material that is no longer in circulation. Because sure, if I had a bankroll like Warren Buffett's and 2nd room in my apartment devoted to just my tangible music I would buy every single out-of-print CD, EP, and 7" from the countless bands I listen to. But I don't. I can't tell you how many times I looked for an old LP or 12" from a band I love that was around in the golden age of the 80's, just to see it go on eBay for $300+. Which is great for that hardcore collector but doesn't do me any good. Then I feel super-lucky upon finding a torrent that has it; ripping vinyl has gotten easier these days but it's still harder and more time-consuming than just putting a CD into iTunes.

Now to get on with my musician's bias against the industry...well, a lot of times they screw the bands. Enough said. Any one of us will tell you that. They expect us to go out and do all the work, put us on pay-to-play gigs where the promoter reaps all the benefits and the artists hardly see a dime (selling tickets is the f'in promoter's job! Bands have to get themselves out there, yes, but my rant against pay-to-play is for another time), and for all the hard work and money that goes into putting out an actual album we as bands don't get a high rate of return. At the end of the day we really do this because we love it. But while the industry blames P2P for low album sales (without realizing the benefits I highlighted like increased exposure leading to higher ticket sales), they also have to realize that consumers today are a LOT more discerning than they were say 50 years ago. Back in our parents' and grandparents' days you just listened to whatever was on the radio and bought whatever record was at the store...you didn't have the millions of choices we have today. We can browbeat companies to provide good products and service through the power of BBB, social networks, forums, and word of mouth. It's an economic concept called consumer sovereignty-- we should use it. I mean, I use torrents to watch movies because DVD manufacturers are not utilizing the medium to its full potential. So many of them cost so much to buy, but are just as barren as the Beta tapes of yore. Both the movie and recording industries need to give us consumers an impetus to buy their products, instead of just trying to punish P2P providers. It's called adaptation!

Lastly...I will gladly use P2P to get word of my next band out. Because the industry wastes so much money on marketing, when the bands DO have to put themselves out there-- namely by going on tour and engaging with their fans. When that's not too feasible due to budget and/or obligation restrictions (like careers and families), P2P is sometimes the ONLY way that band will get exposure outside of their hometown and have a demand created for them to come play elsewhere.

So that's my rant / 2 cents. As a musician and long-time computer geek (long before it was socially acceptable mind you!) I support isoHunt's fight 1000%.

Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:30 pm

the80srule have a little bit of rep for at least seeing the other side of the fence. I am a musician myself and am gratefull for the promotion and feedback that P2P has allowed me.
I am not naive enough to suggest that there arent pirates out there just exploiting P2P to get "free stuff" it certainly isnt enough people to put a dent in the industry. They also are not to be confused with file sharers.
The difference been that filesharers are basically just sharing content and using P2P for distribution or quality control means, whereas pirates are actually leeching off P2P to make a profit.
We DO NOT condone that behaviour!!

The artist has always made most of its money from merchandise and live performances, this has always been true.
The real pirates are the record labels themselves as they are taking most of the artists profit from each album sale, and giving them a minimal return.
A lot of artists dont even own the music that they created because the label owns all the masters and rights. Labels also often leak the artists music on purpose in an attempt to guage sale predictions from online responses.
This is called hippocrisy.

Thats my opinion but there is a lot of fact in that opinion.
If labels want to blame P2P for their troubles then so be it.
However artists should not be blaming P2P, afterall its actually the label taking their profits.

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:04 am

I agree with pacino that it's really the labels taking artists' profits, not P2P users-- and not nearly enough users to cause a decrease in album sales.

And don't even get me started on the rights issues!!! I see it in my line of work ALL THE TIME and it infuriates me. The same thing happened with Sierra (software company) back in the day with the Vivendi Universal buyout. The creators don't own the rights to their own creations...to me personally, that's like CPS taking your children away for no valid reason. Rights contracts should belong to the people who made them unless they voluntarily sell, trade, gift, or donate them to anoter party.

Like I said, at the end of the day us musicians really do this because it's what we love. I embraced my day job more than I initally thought I would (because I like to help people and be a voice for the working class) and don't resent the fact that I have to have a "normal" job; while I live for the exhilaration of being onstage and touring...I couldn't spend all year hopping from town to town practically living out of our van. (And it's freakin hard when only you and your drummer are the only two people at the moment who have gainful employment and savings.) It's great to do it when I can snag a week or two off from work or when it's like a holiday weekend and we do a mini-tour a few states away from home, that's how bands in my scene do it all the time. But that's a ramble for another day and time. Point is, I love being onstage and writing and playing music and feel this technology should be embraced, not scapegoated. Would it rule if my bands made enough money for me to quit my job? Yes, but it isn't 1986 anymore. I'm not 19 anymore and get sad reminders of that every day. In the immortal words of Beavis & Butthead, you need to have stuff that sucks in order to have stuff that's cool. Need to have the boring bureaucracy of my day job to see how much I still love being a musician and why I will never leave punk and hardcore behind no matter how old I get. Need to have the scumbags of the industry remind me that I do this because I love it, not to line their pockets.

And if someone legally owns a CD, LP, 12", DVD, etc. and wants to share it, it's their right. Once that piece of media is into the consumer's hand, it's their right to decide what to do with it not the CEO of a record company's. Speaking from experience again I can say that excitement about live bands has died down where I live in the past decade but it was the total exact opposite when I went to Europe and the UK in my halcyon days; and heard tour stories from my friend's band that just did a circuit in Italy, the Czech Republic, and Germany amongst a few other places. People REALLY get into our bands across the pond. And why shouldn't they be able to get our songs if someone legally owns a CD I put out? Someone in a country like Macedonia or Cyprus hears about my band from another user, and it's not like they can just swing by the club I'm playing at that weekend to come pick up the album!

It's just that the industry wants a scapegoat when they screw the artists to begin with, and are not using their heads at the doors P2P and filesharing opens up.

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:55 pm

And so the debate continues....

It was great to see the way the direction it took and questions it asked, when I was forced underground. Wish I'd still been around......

Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:04 am

IH wrote:

I already wrote a fair bit about our legal struggle with CRIA, so I'm not repeating them here again. Since CRIA's initial cease and desist letters (effectively asking us to shutdown entirely), we have tried to reason with CRIA, have petitioned the court on our legal right to exist as a search engine. Both to no avail, since Judge Curtis has denied our "petition" as improper form, and have ordered us to a normal, lengthy and costly legal "action". We have done that this week.

Here's our Statement of Claim (pdf) we just filed for our action at the BC Supreme Court.

As I've written to the Canadian government in the public consultation for upcoming copyright reform, I have high hopes for Canadian copyright laws and its courts to not make the mistakes that have been made elsewhere in the world. We must fight the increasing noise we are drowned in, that file sharing is stealing. I believe we Canadians are especially blessed with musical talent such as Sarah McLachlan, Celine Dion, Nelly Furtado, Lights and many others. So many that our "cultural output" per capita is arguably greater than that of many other countries. And we have done this without the excessive litigation against consumers that the legal climate in countries like our southern neighbor has encouraged. Thanks in part to our lack of DMCA-like copyright laws that does more harm than good.

With continued changes in both the digital marketplace and usage of P2P search engines like isoHunt, I believe now is a better time than ever to put our differences aside with copyright owners, and figure out how we can utilize P2P distribution and social media for the benefit of all. The internet has widened our choice in music more than ever before, and the music industry is live and well contrary to lies of certain lobbyists. The EU have also commissioned a study that found, P2P is not to blame for failures of certain parts of content industries. Why? How? Because P2P is the greatest radio ever.

If you are a musician and agree with us, we would love to hear from you! We have already heard many interesting feedback, like that of a book author, we want to hear more. And I cordially invite you to join our new spinoff, Hexagon.cc. Together, we can create a better future for content distribution and sharing. Same goes out to film makers, software and game developers.

As for CRIA and member record labels, if you come to your sense of reason, I would love to talk to you outside of court. The ball you've dropped on us is back to you.

I am a Musician and I have just started receiving my Royalties from work done on a movie soundtrack in 2004. It is the Japanese who have started paying up - to be honest - never expected anything. But, everybody else who has the movie in their country have not kicked in one cent, including the US and Canada. DO I CARE? Hardly. I am just glad to be out there. I spent years playing music for nothing and next to nothing, even just a meal and coffee at times, but the boats, cars, and houses never factored into my equations - the girls have always been there.
I agree 100% with ISOHunt and will try to do more to help out when and where I can. I have donated before, but I have to bring the cards down so I can start helping out proper. Cheers...

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:26 am

HI All:

I have read the recent posts and I agree that it is all about money. I usually download stuff that is no longer available or in print. Also when I look for stuff for sale, a lot of things that I am interested in (especially movies) have been edited by the distributor to appeal to a larger audience. I will not pay for crap at the store simply because that's how the distributor wants it down. Keep up the good fight and I hope we win the court case. Very Happy

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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:10 am

The user "johnno23" has reported a post to the forum moderators Laughing

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:23 am

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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:00 pm

trollster wrote:

The user "johnno23" has reported a post to the forum moderators Laughing

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