Join the Copyfight!

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:23 am

Quote:

I don't want any extremes like it happened in France a long time ago when stealing a little bread for your hungry family would send you to a filthy jail for a indeterminate time but I don't want people to abuse this system to avoid paying for something which is a luxury for ever to save some money someone else has the right to receive.

Then I guess we're lucky you don't get to decide whether or not people use the system.. you're starting to sound like quite the narcisist. Plus, what in GOD'S NAME are you talking about? I don't know where you're from buddy, but if your government is thinking about throwing people in dirty cells for illegal downloading then I would discontinue my membership right now if were you Confused

Quote:

There are many angles to this and I haven't seen a single person taking a balanced snapshot of both sides.

Luckily you're not our ethics teacher, nor are we here to satisfy your personal need for explanation. That you don't like my post, I can understand. But if people (like johno23 did quite extensively, I think) do take the time to indulge you, be thankful for it.

Quote:

I don't think I'll be posting any time soon.

Much obliged, sir! Thank you, goodbye!

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:13 pm

sorry buddy but I'm afraid you won't find many people on this site that see
your point of view,
at least your making more sense now, now unless you are one of these
cave dwellers you speak of, the relationship between a dressed up chicken
that is worshipped by the said cave dwellers & the movies description that
we all know, I find pretty much impossible to relate to,
summing that up as worlds apart, Rolling Eyes

I agree people download for many different reasons,
I have mine, you have yours,

you say you have serious issues,
it presents the question, "if you feel that strongly about what your doing is
wrong or right" then why are you here ?

I'm here using the system just like everyone else here.....
because I believe we would otherwise be getting ripped off by paying
extortionate prices for stuff that we don't even know whether we like
without watching or listening to music/movies etc,
& why should we pay these kind of prices prices anyway ?

apart from all that I share stuff that I have paid for,
see for yourself here: https://ca.isohunt.com/torrents/?ihq=kilo+juliet
not only that but I help people like yourself by welcoming newcomers
to the forums & giving advice & hopefully providing an entertaining read
which I don't claim any copyrights to & never will,

I also report fake files/report spammers & false positive votes as my
way of giving something back to the forums & the people that use them,

so if your asking do I have a guilt complex about downloading ?
the answer is a simple no,

at least you have provided the IH community with an interesting if
somewhat laughable read,
no offence intended, I'm just stating my views. Laughing

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:14 am

When I wrote about the consequences of theft, I was talking about France three or four centuries ago (or more, I can't remember). It was meant as a reference to all those who really have no way of getting anything other than through downloading. Those don't make a single dent on the companies' profit and shouldn't be chastised for doing it. And there are other situations where I think downloading is even a right denied to us.

For example, I bought a game, I bought the DLC, but I can only install the DLC from within the game and if I am connected to the internet because I don't even have a local copy of what I bought. I don't like that one bit, I think it is wrong, therefore I download the cracked versions of the DLC, after paying for them, so I can have something I believe is a right of mine. That's something ridiculously unimportant but that is considered against copyright.

I'm not here to "grace" anyone with my comments, I'm here to understand something that keeps bothering me, and I've reached the conclusion that I don't know half as much as I need to know to discuss this topic while making sense. That's why I'm thinking about not posting any time soon.

It's and admission of ignorance.

Perhaps I write in a very strange way, but that's what I meant.

I know it is laughable... It is not something I'm accustomed to write about. But perhaps I can surprise you yet... someday... I hope... Laughing

[edit]

Why the sarcasm? Can't you recognize a newbie when you see one? Geez! Have you been in this for so long you can only be in the offense like this?

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:35 am

haha, you made me laugh yet again, sorry for the sarcasm but you can
expect that from many users here, Laughing

a great improvement I am seeing here, Wink

methinks...... I wonder how many times you edited this post, Laughing

but yeah.... spot on, you got it in a nutshell there,
here's a good example: I actually went out & bought kaspersky antivirus &
roxio creator 2010 as a package deal for £35 but I wish to god I never
had now,
the problems I had with kaspersky..... unbelievable, there's a massive
thread I made about that somewhere deep in the archives lol,
one or two posts in particular describing how I became infected with
800 million viruses & kaspersky went berserk.....that got a blue screen
of death which I managed to recover from using system recovery, Laughing

then on roxio creator I lost all use of the program due to a problem
with the burning engine, since then with advice given from users of
this site I now have the use of freeware burning programs that work
great & antivirus freeware that works great but I couldn't get my money
back because I had registered & used these programs,

finally don't worry too much about being laughed at for your comments.....
some users will rep you for it. Wink

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:24 am

I support sharing and I support Isohunt.com I think we have the kind of knowledge which are stronger than the knowledge of laws and justice.

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:44 pm

I'm sorry... I'm new here and I don't want to create a mess, but this is just too much.

One thing is to defend an illegal act because we find the law unfair... but saying our "knowledge" is better than law and justice???

What the are you talking about?? Are you putting yourself above the law??? Above rightful justice???

I am doing something illegal because I believe the law is not fair. I am not doing this because I think I know better than the law! Most important, I don't think I am above the law. I have my reasons to download what I download, they go against the law, fine, I still do it because I think it's right, but I'll never be above the law!

If I get caught, I cannot defend myself by saying the law is unfair! I broke the law, I pay the price. No judge in the world would go against a law just like that!

Saying something like that, even if you believe it is true in this case, is completely irresponsible... Think about it!

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:57 pm

Arkaever wrote:

I'm sorry... I'm new here and I don't want to create a mess, but this is just too much.

One thing is to defend an illegal act because we find the law unfair... but saying our "knowledge" is better than law and justice???

What the are you talking about?? Are you putting yourself above the law??? Above rightful justice???

I am doing something illegal because I believe the law is not fair. I am not doing this because I think I know better than the law! Most important, I don't think I am above the law. I have my reasons to download what I download, they go against the law, fine, I still do it because I think it's right, but I'll never be above the law!

If I get caught, I cannot defend myself by saying the law is unfair! I broke the law, I pay the price. No judge in the world would go against a law just like that!

Saying something like that, even if you believe it is true in this case, is completely irresponsible... Think about it!

I agree, but I also disagree with you. A couple of years ago it was illegal for black people and women to do pretty much everything, however many didn't agree with this and faught against it, which resulted in a change in many countries. The laws and views about copyright of today are obsolete and dosen't fit the market as it is today. When a market evolves the laws must follow else people will find ways around them or break them, simple logic. If everyone bend over as soon as something is "law" we would just stand there stoomping the same ground over and over, if you belive something is wrong speak up and fight against it.

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:58 pm

Arkaever wrote:

I'm sorry... I'm new here and I don't want to create a mess, but this is just too much.

One thing is to defend an illegal act because we find the law unfair... but saying our "knowledge" is better than law and justice???

What the are you talking about?? Are you putting yourself above the law??? Above rightful justice???

I am doing something illegal because I believe the law is not fair. I am not doing this because I think I know better than the law! Most important, I don't think I am above the law. I have my reasons to download what I download, they go against the law, fine, I still do it because I think it's right, but I'll never be above the law!

If I get caught, I cannot defend myself by saying the law is unfair! I broke the law, I pay the price. No judge in the world would go against a law just like that!

Saying something like that, even if you believe it is true in this case, is completely irresponsible... Think about it!

you're overlooking something.laws don't magically materialize.someone or several someones knowledge was used to write them.people gain knowledge all the time so saying someone wouldn't know better doesn't float.

people thought they knew better and passed prohibition and later decided they were wrong and repealed it.just one of many times where knowledge gained forced change.

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:02 pm

heck, why would I argue against what I want from this site Rolling Eyes

but it seems that is what you are doing & in doing so you might be
starting to annoy people..... right or wrong I'm doing this,
I'm not in this debate thank you very much.

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:42 pm

Quite simply the monkey is out of the cage and no amount of law or punishment of individuals will put the monkey back in its cage.

The fight against an unbalanced and restrictive copyright has had benefits.
We can now legally download music and film from many sites where we have less restriction. I can purchase digital data that is freely usable across all of my devices. It was this way before the digital age. my vinyl record or cassette could be played on any player in any home etc. This was denied with the increasing level of interference and laws with digital entertainment.
As the issues of P2P were so often brought to the front and the arguments to support its usage were made clearer then slowly many of the restrictions imposed by a few have been over turned and modified to the extent where media is now reaching a status of fair use.
Still a long way to go but had we all bent over and said sorry then you would today be paying 99 cents for each copy you own. Ipod PC Laptop etc.

Another area where we have benefitted is that whilst a disk is still an overkill in how to rip people off regarding value for money we now have a wider range of low cost streaming sites and access to movie and music which is meeting the demands of the market. WE are that MARKET. I know of no one personally that just takes without ever having given something back.
KJ uploads plenty music.... we say cool the Law says bad.
If I download the law says bad but whilst 90% of the files I think are ok but nothing special (similar to radio play) the 10% if I like it I am forced by my own insatiable curiosity to track down and gain knowledge about the artist his homepage his music. In many respects what I downloaded for free is the impetus that leads me to purchase from the artist direct when possible resulting in support.
As more Artists gain support from those (bad) people downloading torrents then the landscape changes evermore.

Finally as I need to leave as I have a flight to Malaysia for my work in a couple of hours I would leave a final remark.

The laws do not protect the artist. The artist is the tool by which institutions can force creation of law to protect their out dated business model.
As more people turn to supporting the artists in a direct and personal manner then the copyright fight for fair use comes a little closer.

If I pay 10 dollars for a CD in the shop and the artist receives 50 cents then it stands to reason that if I pay the artist direct 1 USD and download off his homepage then he has a higher income. And before people shout that
"the artist has no exposure and that he needs the institutions called Warner Fox Sony"
Think about that...... this is why they hate P2P as we no longer need them. Torrents the community and social forums introduce and promote todays artists and have replaced those companies that got rich and helped create the unrealistic copyright law.

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:00 pm

Johnno has hit the nail on the head IMO. Buying direct from the artist is something i will always try to do when i am a supporter of their work. By cutting out the corporate middle man, as Johnno so very rightly points out, the artist profits more, and we as consumers are getting a very good price for their media in return. I remember years ago i was at a gig where a particular artist i liked was playing. I got the opportunity to speak to the guys in the band after their performance, and asked if they had any cd's. They said they had got a few bits and bobs lying around, but brand new ones were available in stores/through "somerecordlabel.com" They were amazed when i said id prefer to buy direct from them, and were really appreciative of the gesture, taking time to sign their albums for me and thanking me for my support, explaining that they would be 10x better if everyone did this, as a lot of their profits got swallowed up by the record label, and after the 3 album deal ran out, they probably would have to call it a day as they wouldnt be able to afford any studio time to write new material. So sad. Meanwhile, the fatcats keep taking their cuts for doing practically nothing productive or creative themselves. Sickening.

I download:

Music - to try before i decide whether to buy and to research new bands

Movies - to try before i decide to cough up for the dvd/bluray

I still go to the cinema quite a lot, there are some movies that just dont cut it being viewed as a dodgy telesync.

Bit of a ramble, sorry guys. Copyright sucks anyway, THATS a matter of F.A.C.T. Laughing

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:42 am

I think I understood your points, but I am not being able to reply correctly.

For now I would just like to ask a couple of questions regarding at least one of the arguments raised:

Who can afford professional sound edition and recording (editors, studio time, equipment, extra hands for extra instruments, etc) and get a product as good as you can have now?

Would any bank fund the creation of a high cost movie by a group of independent artists?

This isn't about copyright directly, the way copyright works still sucks, but that option of buying directly from the artists is not that linear. This is only to address the comments about independent work and other stuff.

I'm trying to find a link to a detailed description of exactly what most think is wrong with copyright because I'm getting the feeling that what I think is wrong with copyright isn't exactly the same as you do.

If you can help me... well, it might set me straight Wink

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:01 am

check out sites as vodo.com plenty of free movie stuff and some of it excellent.
Check out a movie called INK that was ripped and released by the P2P community.
The movie is out on Bluray thanks to P2P as the studios and cinemas refused to pick it up for showing....... the independents that made it personally thanked online the pirate bay.
Check out bands as Marillion 3 albums to date made by donations through downloads, hoopy frood is another Brit band doing the same.
Check ut how much music is done and done live and released made on a laptop with garage band logic audio etc....... in this digital age people are getting creative and do not need the over priced shite offered by people who think it is their god given right to get rich over the work from others.

Hendriks created Electric Lady land as it was his dream to have guitars available for the kids who had no coin, sadly he died and now it costs mega bucks to rent studio time when Hendrix wanted it to offer free studio time for those that could not afford it and this cost was to be paid by those that were more successful and pay for the studio.

I can't play anything but a bloody school recorder and do "do re me" but on my imac I can make music and it can be studio quality if i take the time to research what I am doing........... The studios have good tech but their mind set is still in the caves.... time to come out and greet the digital world or go the way of the dinosaur.

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:08 am

You did set me straight about one thing at least.

That's kinda nice because this way anyone can have success in the music industry making enough money to live comfortably; at least as long as they can produce music that enough persons like and a very great majority of them actually go to the trouble of paying. This last issue seems to be solved because everyone on the internet seems to be aware of what is happening and would gladly pay for the music instead of just downloading it (at least I hope so).

The last point isn't sarcasm. I started by being skeptical about letting people decide whether or not to pay, but I'm starting to come around. The way you speak about these matters is so honest that I'm starting to believe an enormous portion of those who downloaded a music would really pay it. Also because I have remembered about a couple of independent works that are very well supported.

I trust your judgment about using cheaper equipment and not needing some of the things I said because a friend of mine has a small sound studio at home. If he found enough co-workers, it might be enough to create good music.

He uses expensive equipment, but I guess everything needed is just the computer with a sound board. The sound board he uses, with a quality DSP is expensive, but by saving a bit it would be possible to get there... Unless, of course, someone wants to create music using only a low budget board with a very simple DSP. I don't know if that works well or not. His sound card is meant for processing complex signals in complex ways.

By the way; are you talking about purely digital music? No analogical instruments, like a guitar? Are they doing that in the industry? Because that's completely messed up...

It has lyrics, right?

Also, using only digital means, is it possible to create all kinds of music? Not just a couple of them?

Everything seems artificial now... Will I live to hear big B's ninetieth created digitally instead of using real orchestral instruments?

There is so much more to creating music than creating the notes. There is so much someone can say in the music by the way they play the notes and not just by the notes they play... It's kinda sad.

I also try to create music like that too. But the music I create is only to find out if it would be any good with instruments, not to release it using digital instruments.

The way things are, I guess the industry is using the same thing. It is, isn't it?

Well, If it is all purely digital, if no real instrument is used, I stand corrected; disappointed, but corrected.

I guess in most modern music that doesn't really matter, does it? I like many modern creations. I don't like entire types or almost all of the music of any artist, but I like a few musics from a few styles. I guess I am a paradoxical anachronism: I like modern music but there are things, about earlier music, that I miss.

K. Now all that is left are movies! How could someone independently create something like, oh, I don't now... "Pirates of the Caribbean"

Only one last thing: didn't Hendriks need a lot of money to try to do what you said?

[Edit]

I almost forgot! "Go the way of the dinosaur"? You mean become a bird?

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:45 pm

Artist of every generation and of every kind have drawn on ideas and works that have come before them.
Your own creativity is a result of the sources you borrow from others, the unique mix of ideas that synthesise in your own works.

This then brings Copyright into question. It means that Copyright is nothing more than a right to make money off of other peoples ideas.

Thats exactly whats going on in the films, games and music industry where publishers, distributors, believe they hold a right to make money off of other peoples ideas.

If you ever receive a letter or asked to go court because of downloading "Precious Booty" then just say you dont agree with copyright nor its terms and conditions and you have not stolen anything.

The fact is whatever comes into your possession you have a right to do whatever you want with it!! nobody owns anything once you have decided to share it or give it away for a price!

eye eye me lads!