Lokitorrent sold out like Suprnova?

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:57 pm

I know the story of whats really going on is still very unclear....

What really gets to me, is that the MPAA is fileing lawsuits charging operaters of torrent sites X million(s) of dollars, far from which the guy can even make in his lifetime(maybe) they make billions of dollars and there crying over a few millions of dollars and forcing the guys that operate the sites pay sums that they cant possibly payback in there lifetime.

Couldnt they just shut down the sites and be happy heck they can now make a few more millions of dollars to spend on there mansions and ferrari's!?!??

the more i think about it... the owner of lokitorrent must have been working or atleast helping the MPAA.... The site hardly mentioned anything about the MPAA and the problem!! THERE WAS NO WAY he didnt see this coming.. the MPAA would have gave him a notice a long time ago like with torrentbox..... that site showed everyone the notice they got with the MPAA threatning to close down the site and all. with lokitorrent.... the operater did not give any notice that the site is going to be shut down or MPAA's intentions.. He must have been helping or been working with MPAA.. i guess to lighten up some of his charges???

But ya guys know... i doupt the MPAA is going to every bittorrent user in the world's houses and confiscate there harddrives and put them to jail... beacause thats a hell of alot of people..

And another thing.. i dont think users in canada could be charged or put in jail for that can they?!?! There was a i guess a vote or something a while back about would it be illegal in canada to use p2p programs such as kazza and they concluded it wont be illegal since its like a library.. your just sharing what you got.

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:59 pm

From thic CLX cat, (are you duped to or a bad liar, which is it?)

"loki gets served with a court order telling him to shut down and threatens criminal action if he alters any content on the site.

loki calls lawyer. says "can you help me fight this?" lawyer says " sure- for 40,000 dollars a month."

loki starts fund raiser to pay legal fees. miraculously, first month fees are met. fight continues. "

Sorry, but one more time I got to repost this, because if you look carefully you will see the bs in this;

"loki gets served with a court order telling him to shut down and threatens criminal action if he alters any content on the site. "

see Loki didnt tell you guys this? He only posts the MPAA'S complaint, but now we hear he was running at least for one month, taking your donations under false pretenses?

I reccomend if any of you get a knock from the MPAA because of Eddie here, that you seek damages against(SUE) him because he failed to disclose, in the agreement you signed to become a member in the last month, that a summary judgement had already been issued against Him, wheras "he was threatened with criminal action, if he "altered" the site in any way. (deleted logs, etc)

also I find it total BS that if indeed this court order was issued, why did the site continue for at least one month?

My investigations show that there was no summary judgement in this case, but pre trial negoiation, in which case it seems that Loki did willingly take your money with the full lntent to settle with the MPAA.. which is it? cant have it both ways here, Me or you CLX!! if there was a summary judgment in this case, then Loki flat our mislead people to donate. He only ever said the MPAA filed a suit against him, not that a court ordered a summary judgement, then afterwards he weas able to "get get one months payment" << that shows once again he was lying.. or..

they never got a summary judgement in which case YOU ARE LYING!! which is it? again cant have it both ways. Some of us do have slightly than average observation skills!! you are lying or he is lying, bottom line.
(or you have been brainlessly duped into beleiving an impossible point of view, which makes you in my book at the very least A BLIND MORON)

Another thing you guys might not know is that this loki MAY have been supplying uploads via a "top site" connection. "Top site" meaning "The FTP warez scene" and that where he could have been afraid to go to prison.

THINK ABOUT IT HARD AND REVIEW THE FACTS HERE CAREFULLY before beleiving, even if well meaning, someone who has been duped into a BS cover story!!
Peace

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:45 am

lilchowwow wrote:

I know the story of whats really going on is still very unclear....

What really gets to me, is that the MPAA is fileing lawsuits charging operaters of torrent sites X million(s) of dollars, far from which the guy can even make in his lifetime(maybe) they make billions of dollars and there crying over a few millions of dollars and forcing the guys that operate the sites pay sums that they cant possibly payback in there lifetime.

Couldnt they just shut down the sites and be happy heck they can now make a few more millions of dollars to spend on there mansions and ferrari's!?!??

the more i think about it... the owner of lokitorrent must have been working or atleast helping the MPAA.... The site hardly mentioned anything about the MPAA and the problem!! THERE WAS NO WAY he didnt see this coming.. the MPAA would have gave him a notice a long time ago like with torrentbox..... that site showed everyone the notice they got with the MPAA threatning to close down the site and all. with lokitorrent.... the operater did not give any notice that the site is going to be shut down or MPAA's intentions.. He must have been helping or been working with MPAA.. i guess to lighten up some of his charges???

But ya guys know... i doupt the MPAA is going to every bittorrent user in the world's houses and confiscate there harddrives and put them to jail... beacause thats a hell of alot of people..

And another thing.. i dont think users in canada could be charged or put in jail for that can they?!?! There was a i guess a vote or something a while back about would it be illegal in canada to use p2p programs such as kazza and they concluded it wont be illegal since its like a library.. your just sharing what you got.

DISCLAIMER; THE BELOW ARTICLE IS FOR EDUCATIONAL INFORMATION ONLY, AND NOT INTENDED FOR OTHERWISE, BUT ONLY FOR FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

Ok I am going to explain in small detail usc 17 and 18.. in a nutshell the grey area lies within "is downloading copyrighted material a crime"?

we according to usc 17 and 18, yes and no, Ill explain;

the usc here is written a bit off here and disagrees with prior legal precedence.. I would like to see the actaul statute and see if the codifiers altered the natural meaning of both these usc's

basically they say..

If a person distributes, OR (there is where the language in my mind deviates form prior supreme court language, refer to "fair use")

makes 10 copies and/or those copies have a commercail worth of over 2500, the person shall be charged with a felony"

However here, with prior rulling (precendence) in terms of fair use, the implied language here, not the plain text (done on purpose by the codifiers)

seems to suggest that 10 copy limit is for the purpose of distribution, and the spirit of the law is somewhat consistent with a more plain language of;

"if that person basically is uploading, copying for the purpose to distribute, DOWNLOADING FORTHE PURPOSE TO SELL AND/OR DISTRIBUTE" << THERE WOULD BE a violation.. the legislative intent here does seems consisten with fair use..

Fair use would cover most if not all the downloaders here WHO USE THE STUFF THEY GET FOR ENTERTAINMENT and/or educational purposes only."

in other words, IF YOU downloaded stuff just toi collect for yourself and do not share that publically, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT AT ALL..

even if you seeded, DID YOU PROVIDE THE ORIGINAL WORK?

even if you did seed they can come after you but they want to get the sources on this stuff. trhat why the MPAA guy basically said "we will turn over the logs in CERTAIN CASES"

they will not come after you if you dl a movie and did not seed it but if you seeded allot of movies, mp3's and somehow was the first link to the copyrighted work being MADE PUBLIC, YOU GOT SOMETHING TO WORRY ABOUT!!

befire i continue, by law I will RE-issue a disclaimer;

DISCLAIMER; THIS ARTICLE IS FOR EDUCATIONAL INFORMATION ONLY, AND NOT INTENDED FOR OTHERWISE RATHER THEN FREEDOM OF INFORMATION;

COPYRIGHT LAW, in its intention, is to protect the marketing of copyrighted works.. in othe words it protects the co's marketing rights so of course they can make money. The certainly have a right to. Here is where I think many of you are a bit misinformed between what is fair use and what is copy right infringment"

If I buy a dvd at the store and/or i legally buy it from any source, and I wish to share it with PRIVATE PARTIES, friends, etc, ONLY FOR non profit use thats sharing.. its completly legal IN SPITE OF WHAT THE MPAA WOULD HAVE YOU BELEIVE, they do not have absolute copy control following?

However these 2 points, and please follow them carefully;

If i am an MPAA member and I take a PRIVATE SCREENER and distribute it for public use THATS COPY RIGHT INFRINGMENT.. i.e new movies NOT YET AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE AT A DVD STORE.. follow?

if i did that, I am circumventing their future profits and have decided to market(distribute) on my own terms when I am NOT THE COPY RIGHT HOLDER? follow? = ILLEGAL..

point 2 on illegal dsitrubution;
If I make avaible TO NON PRIVATE PARTIES, i,e put copyrighted files to make ready to dl, people WHO ARE NOT PRIVATE FRIENDS, THAT NOT SHARING, THATS COPY RIGHT INFRINGMENT.. I dont care how much you guys "FEEL" differently about it, it is, and no court would rule otherwise.

However, if you dl this stuff from these people, for the purpose OF NON PROFIT NONT COMMERCIAL USE, and YOU DO NOT DISTRIBUTE THE PROTECTED WORKS, NO COURT WOULD FIND YOU GUILTY OF COPY RIGHT INFRINGMENT.... if one does the supreme court has precedence here, it simply should not happen.. following still?

Ok the difference between loki torrent, torrenspy, and isohunt..

LOKI TORRENT= HAD THEIR OWN TRACKER, and were legally responsible to maintain that tracker to MAKE SURE that copy right infringment (as i laid out above) would not take place.. they cannot claim free speech because a user COULD USE LOKI'S OWN TRACKER to distribute copyrighted materials.= CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT COPY RIGHT INFRINGEMENT

ISO AND TORRENTSPY do not have their own trackers, therefore they maintain nothing but "speech" which in itself posting a link to a torrent is not liablous in any way nor is it slanderous, I dont care how hard the MPAA want to claim damages from it, they cant win against iso or torrentspy, they have a right to allow others to post links where those links take one to a read only files which in themselves have no copy righted materials.

Say i have a site that I allow SUSPECTED DRUG DEALERS to post articles, as long as their speech in those articles are not illegal I cannot be forced to turn over their ip addresses, the feds could perhaps (if the activity falls under the patriot act)
get a warrant on the isp but they could not force me to turn over the logs.. Now if i have a site where I allow felons to use a central database to commit crimes, then i can be held liable

I see this analogy between tracker and non tracker sites (feel free to show me where my analogy is flawed)

Anyways in a nutshell

the MPAA and RIAA one day will try to sue the wrong person and will lose a case, but dont be fooled into thinking you can upload publically a ton of stuff, you cant legally.

Those 2 have to also realize the right to fair use and be very miondful who they attempt to sue..
Peace

i encourage you who do that to thinbk carefully about the legalities of that,, Be cool peace!!

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:36 am

Und3rpl@y wrote:

IH, I think your site is currently one of the best, with a nice clean fast design and obviosuly good quality coding. I hope you will not fold under all of the lawsuits and MPAA pressure. Is there a chance you will be shut down too?

[Edit]

Fixed spelling

Refer to my last post. If the MPAA attempts to get his site shut down, if the site owner here does not cave into what constitutes "legal blackmail and/or a bribe" isohunt, since they provide no tracker service is within the right of free speech and cannot be held responsible and/or liable. Therefore I wojld encourage them to fight, with the right arguement and case precedence, they would win in my strong opinion. I did post on loki i observed loki had no chance to win for the reasons i laid out, plus i suspect loki and several of his "cohorts" might have been members of the "warez top site scene" which in that case, would further provide something for those guys to "worry about".. Peace

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:54 am

What I am wondering is:

1) How can one be so naive to actually believe one could stand a chance in trial against the MPAA?? It hasn't worked for Napster, it hasn't for audiogalaxy or anybody else in the past and won't do so in the future. Plus it's pretty obvious MPAA has got the kind of cash to legally destroy ones financial existance regardless of whether they are "right" or not. Even if there is a chance they might loose trial eventually, all they have to do is to make sure it takes longer to win trial than anyone non corporate could last financially. These seem to be very basic considerations to me anybody dealing with p2p or more so running an p2p site should be aware of. In consequence Lowkee must be either a complete dufus or alternatively somebody very blinded by idealism. (which essentially is the same)

2) How can any user not consider the above, actually donate and now winge and even blame Lowkee for not having "the guts" to selfdestructively wreck his very existence? Who would be stupid enough to do that???? Obviously Lowkee and those people blaming him now for misappropriating their donations are playing in the same sad league.

3) As for the information provided to the MPAA by Lowkee:
Cynically enough Lowkee has endangered all those who are essentailly keeping the torrent-community alive: the seeders. Now I get that destroying evidence AFTER the court has ordered him to hand it over would have only made things worse. But with plenty of time at hand BEFORE that and considering the above I don't get why the first thing he did do, when troble started to become serious wasn't to destroy all the logged information that could possibly endanger others.

The way I see it Sloncek has done the right thing. He called it quits before things got worse and more so before anybody else was endangered. Instead think of some other way to keep filesharing alive. Let's face it: once a p2p network becomes "popular" it's only a matter of time before it is going to be closed down. Why even consider an - essentially narcistic - legal "crusade"? The strength of the p2p community lies in it's ability to restructurize itself quicker than the corporate side can react to it and thus keep filesharing alive. "We" - whoever that may be - cleary do not need martyrs or heroes nor anybody to ruin himself and thus inevitably others in court. What "we" do need are guys and gals with brains - not bullies.

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:13 am

Here's my advice to all of you in the US who downloaded from Lokitorrent in the past. Delete everything incrimination, I recommend finding software that allows you to securely erase everything. So that the Motion Picture Ass es will have more trouble.
Wait should I do this too? I live in Canada is the MPAA any threat to me?

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:59 pm

Quote:

Wait should I do this too? I live in Canada is the MPAA any threat to me?

For now, you are safe!

http://www.cle.bc.ca/CLE/Analysis/Collection/04-12345-bmg
(Has some info there, but I can't find stuff from this year yet)

I'm pretty sure isohunt is Canadian too, so that's probably why he isn't sweating that much.

But some crackhead lobbyists might be screwing us over:
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~gardnerw/courses/cis2450/res/web-copyright.htm

Also, the list of "people" CRIA are trying to sue!!!!

http://www.canfli.org/docs/court/Canadian29-List.txt

Sorry for all the links, but you might want to take interest in some Canadian law, just so you know how long this method is going to hold up until the technology advances...
I guess isohunt isn't going down until the law changes... Confused

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:26 pm

thank you canada!!! Thats one of the many reasons i love living in canada!

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:52 pm

I'm not here to stoke this flaming fire we got here... I just wonder. When Lowkee turned the logs of the site over to the MPAA, did he not turn over the IP's of the very same people that came to his 'defense' by 'donating money'.

What some people don't seem to understand is that when someone makes a donation, that donation is made in good faith. Lowkee acquired apprx. $50,000 from people that were loyal to him. I can understand why they're all pissed off now.

Personally, I think he saw the 'chokehold' coming. I know I did. I don't blame him for shutting down to avoid prison. But the deal he made.... something isn't right.

You want to kill the MPAA's efforts? Remember, the internet is, in essence, a global community. Just let them try to sue the entire planet. Their pockets aren't that deep.

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:56 pm

Well only thing that pisses me off is I was on lokitorrent.com and was chatting in the irc channel and people were worrying about the case saying stuff like what if lowkee hands over the logfiles what if the MPAA comes after us etc etc, what I considered fair worries. Then what happens next? the asshole mods and admins, lowkees lovers, start harping on about how lowkee will delete all the log files stop moaning if your gunna moan we will ban you kick you deregister your account etc etc.

ASSHOLES! One guy kept talking bout it saying how he feared lowkee would hand over the logfiles and so got deregistered from the site!

AND WHAT HAPPENED LOWKEES LOVERS? Well your sexual homo lowkee handed over the log files and now the MPAA is after uploaders and downloaders of the site! Evil or Very Mad

So my final thought on the Lokitorrent court case... rot lowkee, I hope you enjoy the rest of your life atleast you still have your gay lovers. Twisted Evil

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:07 pm

I'll just raise one point. The amount raised by the public to fight for Lokitorrent is talked of as around $50,000.
Considering what seems to have been carefully planned and carried out behind the scenes and that the only guide to this figure came from Lokitorrent; I have serious doubt whether $50,000 was the actual, or anywhere approaching the actual sum raised.

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:47 pm

LokiTorrent's server logs and data reveal a road to nowhere
Posted by SeÃ¡n Byrne on 14 February 2005 - 00:17 - Source: Slyck News

When the owner of LokiTorrent was ordered to shutdown its BitTorrent service and pay a fine of $1 million, he was also ordered to provide the MPAA full access to all logs and server data related to the illegal BitTorrent activities. However it appears that these stored logs are actually not all that useful in finding what users had downloaded on the network. Basically what the logs track are those who download the .torrent key files, but does not record if the user actually downloads the content using that key.

Another problem is that as the logs typically grow around 1GB per day on a typical BitTorrent tracker site, many BitTorrent tracking sites, especially the more popular ones either clear their logs every few days or disable logging altogether. However, if a log file reveals a substantial number of logs relating to a given IP, at best this may trigger some investigation to be carried out on this IP. While LokiTorrent also logged torrent uploaders, they did so by username and not IP address.

Finally, only LokiTorrentâ€™s trackers actually logged the actual upload and download transfers . However, their tracker software XBTT does have a drawback in that it stores its logs only in memory and thus automatically loses its logs once its shutdown. The Entertainment industry would be better monitoring active public trackers. In the end it appears that their announcement that they have a roadmap of those file sharing is basically no more than a scare tactic. brantdk submitted teh following news via our news submit:

The MPAAâ€™s press release is chilling. Not only has the money donated to the legal defence fund disappeared into a black hole, but all former registered users of LokiTorrent are placed at risk of future lawsuits.

However, registered users will be relieved to hear that very little, if any, useful information will end up in the hands of the MPAA.

â€œThey don't have anything, they have air,â€? an ex-torrent site owner told Slyck. He chose to remain anonymous. For arguments sake, we will call him Paul.

Paul also ran a Torrent site based on the same scripts and source used by LokiTorrent. They conferred regularly.

Referring to the website logs:

â€œThose access logs have no value it all. They only display whether you downloaded the .torrent file, not if you actually downloaded the content using that Torrent,â€? Paul explained to Slyck.

The Torrent file is merely a key; the MPAA can not prove that it was used in any locks.

Paul went on, â€œWe both didn't log [seed and leech] information because first it would allow us to know too much about the people using the network and what they were sharing. 2nd it would require huge resources to keep track of all that. That's the tracker's job.â€?

Read the full article here.

Then again, while the former users of LokiTorrent may feel more relieved, this does not apply to users currently sharing or downloading over BitTorrent on active sites. For example the RIAA or MPAA could decide that rather than shut down the next BitTorrent site, they could instead monitor and track the userâ€™s traffic while most users using that site believe that as the site is still up, they can continue transferring files.

Feel free to discuss and find out more about BitTorrent and other file sharing services including legal issues on our Music Downloads, Peer-to-Peer (P2P) & Legal Issues Forum.

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:57 pm

Estranged is right... the MPAA will NEVER I mean NEVER will be able to shut down the whole warez and pirated goodies once and for all. There will always be new websites, trackers, servers that will be used to share warez and all.

Its the same with hacked satalite.... satalite company finds a way to screw with the scramblers... scrambler maker's will always find a workaround. never ending cycle.

The MPAA is such greedy bastards they want absolutly 0 sharing. Their almost saying we are losing 50 thousand a year because people giving there friend thier copy of the dvd and letting them make a copy for themselves.. so we are going to bug every phone in every home and put camaras in ever home and in ever street every car so that we can catch someone lending there copy of finding nemo to make a copy of.

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:26 pm

maldoror wrote:

What I am wondering is:

1) How can one be so naive to actually believe one could stand a chance in trial against the MPAA?? It hasn't worked for Napster, it hasn't for audiogalaxy or anybody else in the past and won't do so in the future. Plus it's pretty obvious MPAA has got the kind of cash to legally destroy ones financial existance regardless of whether they are "right" or not. Even if there is a chance they might loose trial eventually, all they have to do is to make sure it takes longer to win trial than anyone non corporate could last financially. These seem to be very basic considerations to me anybody dealing with p2p or more so running an p2p site should be aware of. In consequence Lowkee must be either a complete dufus or alternatively somebody very blinded by idealism. (which essentially is the same)

2) How can any user not consider the above, actually donate and now winge and even blame Lowkee for not having "the guts" to selfdestructively wreck his very existence? Who would be stupid enough to do that???? Obviously Lowkee and those people blaming him now for misappropriating their donations are playing in the same sad league.

3) As for the information provided to the MPAA by Lowkee:
Cynically enough Lowkee has endangered all those who are essentailly keeping the torrent-community alive: the seeders. Now I get that destroying evidence AFTER the court has ordered him to hand it over would have only made things worse. But with plenty of time at hand BEFORE that and considering the above I don't get why the first thing he did do, when troble started to become serious wasn't to destroy all the logged information that could possibly endanger others.

The way I see it Sloncek has done the right thing. He called it quits before things got worse and more so before anybody else was endangered. Instead think of some other way to keep filesharing alive. Let's face it: once a p2p network becomes "popular" it's only a matter of time before it is going to be closed down. Why even consider an - essentially narcistic - legal "crusade"? The strength of the p2p community lies in it's ability to restructurize itself quicker than the corporate side can react to it and thus keep filesharing alive. "We" - whoever that may be - cleary do not need martyrs or heroes nor anybody to ruin himself and thus inevitably others in court. What "we" do need are guys and gals with brains - not bullies.

Get your facts right before posting "no one has won against the MPAA" first off the MPAA never took Napster to court, that was the RIAA..

2nd, LIMEWIRE and Grokster have been sucessful against The RIAA, foir the basic reason I gave, "No centralized database" These other suits that have been lost have been lost not because of "money" but because the law was not on their side, PERIOD!!

3rd Lowkee had no shot because once again, and pay attention to this, HE had his own tracker,, comprende?

Knowledge is power, if I was ever to be sued by either of those agencies, Id represent myself, use prior case precedence, etc.. Howerver if i was uploading, "distributing copyrighted works" i would not waste my time to fight that because Id be guilty and there is no arguement or case precedence, OR ANY LAW, including fair use I cold rest upon iunless they invaded a priovate network of mine between friends, then i cojld use the fair use arguement.. Stop being ignorant on law and investigate.

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:29 pm

Sargasm wrote:

Here's my advice to all of you in the US who downloaded from Lokitorrent in the past. Delete everything incrimination, I recommend finding software that allows you to securely erase everything. So that the Motion Picture Ass es will have more trouble.
Wait should I do this too? I live in Canada is the MPAA any threat to me?

Yet another guy who simply wont learn his stuff..
They cant do jack poop against downloaders if those downloaders are not redistributing.. How much more clear can I be on that point?

didnt you pay attention to the MPAA spokesman "we will turn over records IN CERTAIN CASES.. meaning, if you actaully know the law, cases that reflect UPLOADERS DISTRIBUTING,, got that? good!!