Data retention: how much do you care about your privacy?

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:28 pm

In today's news, Youtube was ordered to give user histories and IP's to Viacom for evidentiary collection (aka. discovery in legal terms). I've went through this same process with our lawsuit brought by the MPAA so I thought I'll share some of my thoughts on the issue.

As unreasonable as I think these lawsuits by Viacom/MPAA may be, in order for the legal process to work, plaintiffs are entitled to evidence in order to prove their case. However, user privacy should be a large concern in disclosing of data (logs) as evidence, and in neither Youtube's or our case, there's no reason for turning over data that would expose your personal identify (such as your IP address). From glancing the order against Youtube, the reason they were ordered to turn over user histories is to prove user infringements, and inclusion of IP's in such logs is to uniquely identify users who may have signed up multiple usernames/accounts. I call bullshit on that. If someone uses multiple usernames, he can as easily login with multiple IP addresses, disclosing IP's would not help the plaintiffs in proving copyright infringements. I expect Google/Youtube to appeal the order (at least I sure hope so).

As for us, we successfully argued in our MPAA case that we don't need to turn over your IP addresses as it is a violation of user privacy with no evidentiary value, and only turned over .torrent access logs in anonymized form. You may not like to hear that .torrent logs are being turned over, but the truth is we were ordered to do so and that the MPAA does need anonymous logs to prove their frivolous lawsuit.

The bottom line is, what really matters to you is your privacy and I can assure you that our rather simplistic privacy policy is true and correct: we will not disclose your personal identity to any third party, without your consent. For other website admins, as Brian Aker of MySQL has suggested, for sake of privacy of your users and your own sanity, only keep server logs in anonymized or aggregate form. I see no usefulness to keep full logs long term. As to ISP or other man in the middle snooping of your activities on isoHunt, we now have SSL encryption option to protect your visit to isoHunt.com from prying eyes.

Note that the same privacy policy applies to our other websites, TorrentBox.com and Podtropolis.com.

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:45 pm

It's very concerning to privacy in general, of course it comes as absolutely no surprise they won't be happy until they can monitor every key stroke on everyone's computer on the internet. Then they'll start trying to come up with ways to monitor your thoughts I'm sure. It's all so ridiculous at this point. I'm wondering how long they are going to keep bothering to keep it behind the veil of protecting companies against piracy and just start coming after the users themselves.

I'm really always about future implications whenever I hear something like this. They are slowly but surely starting to gain little foot holds here and there, and sadly most of us seem to have no say in the matter as it's dealt out as a bunch of legal precedents between various companies and internet entities. (IH included) Once they have those instituting policy will be very simple for them, and I have no doubt they will choose to start treating everyone on the internet the exact same way they treat us in general. Like we're little children that don't know what's best for us. Then they'll just slice up the internet and turn it into another media controlled brainwashing outlet... oh and don't forget the ads for all the STUFF we NEED to make us happy so we don't realize they are slowly jamming us into our houses and into their stores, telling us what to think dictating what we know, and in the end they may just get their cast of obedient workers that are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, but not independant or free thinking enough to question them.

Sorry I'm straying off topic, I'm just getting fed up with all this in a hurry.

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:56 pm

It's morning here. I really appreciate the dialogue, though. Keep up your leagal Savvy. Ta!

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:54 pm

It's kinda sad really..

At least most ip's are dynamic these days..

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:17 am

I think they should settle for what the MPAA had to settle for with the .torrent files. I mean, it's still asinine, but at least it's not blatantly revoking security of every internet user in the world.

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:53 am

Just be glad your not in Bavaria:

The Bavarian Parliament passed a law that allows Bavarian police to place 'Remote Forensic Software' on a suspect's computer as well as on the computers of a suspect's contacts. They may break into houses in secret to install the RFS if a remote installation is not possible; and while they are there a (physical) search is permitted too. The RFS may be used to read, delete, and alter data."

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:11 pm

Youtube hosed my account twice for for showing a whole segment of a an anime about 4 or so minutes long and the blasted thing is not even licensed in the US and after a month of emails they told me to talk tot eh UK office as the US one did not handle such things.

The sate of CP and infringement in the US is a joke we need to fight agisnt and close down the corrupted corporate mentalities permeating government and law, if shearing goes encrypted the only recourse for big biz is to degrade public rights further to find people for basically listing to the radio.

Without a wide protected gray area of fair use and indavendaul shearing more and more disenfranchisement will plauge media and as they tighten the grip things will get worse, consuemr end infringement nullifies damages more often then not by all means treat for profit ventures like drug dealers and take all their money and property but for the love of god we do not need the Ipod police dragging kids to juvie for downloading....

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:07 am

i feel fear as I read the words of the administrator that has to deal with the pressures of the world around "all of us."

The MPAA has a reasonable gripe with the piracy occurring every day...

But...

On the opposite side of the coin, its not as if Hollywood has "ever' done any of us any favors either. They are almost as bad as the music industry as far as I'm concerned.

If anything, the prices have gone up without any real reasons other than the realization they can get away with it and people will pay it without raising up a fuss over the issue.

I think its bullshit that the average minimum wage worker has to work as long as the duration of the movie to simply enjoy one.

Much less provide his family with the same entertainment for three times the price.

Translation... The average minimum wage worker has to work an entire day to take his wife and children out to the film and purchase enough popcorn and soda to go around in the meantime.

And for what? An hour and a half of entertainment that 'may or may not be" worth the money spent?

I'm sorry... but with the way the economy has been beating down 'sooooo" many good people lately, little things like a "free" movie, really help me tolerate all the bullshit good people have to deal with "every day." Including myself.

It doesnt make what any of us are doing here right, but it sure goes a long way to make a lot of us feel better about the world we live in....

It's horrible to think a lot of us are concerned about where rent will come from next month, its even worse to consider the possibility that we'll be paying rent to live in a prison over something as simple as a couple hours worth of entertainment.

Most of us just download away without any consideration of who we're ripping off by doing so.

Others feel that the people we are ultimately taking from are rich enough as it is, and won't miss the several dollars we "could" provide, because frankly they likely dont need the ten bucks as much as "we" do.

If society was better balanced and the lower class was provided more financial freedom to do what they wanted to... Piracy wouldnt be a problem.

Thats a fact.

Only flaw with that perspective is, how is that the MPAA's fault, and why should Hollywood pay for our economies shortcomings?

I'm torn on this one....

But it doesnt stop me from taking advantage of the media "others" provide for me in the meantime. Call me immoral, but I truly feel "no" guilt downloading and watching these films.

In my mind... they are over priced and would make they're money back much more efficiently if it was more of an affordable experience to begin with.

I have no sympathy for greedy corporations that dominate the market with a monopoly on distribution.

I guess ultimately the MPAA is right to be upset... Because I will 'never" pay money for something I dont have to, but at the same time... Aren't the movies we all download worth "something?"

I believe they are....

After all... At some point.... somebody "did" shell out MILLIONS of dollars to make the movies we enjoy every day for free. Dont we owe something to the individuals that have done so much to entertain us?

So...

I guess my final thought on this issue is, if they were more reasonable about the cost of such things, I would never feel the urge to just say "f**k it" and download it for free.

But they aren't reasonable... They just keep hiking up the price for the very same product... Which is ultimately just two hours of entertainment to occupy us in between punching in and punching out of the jobs we're forced to endure in the meantime.

I dont think good people should be forced to give away a days worth of work simply to enjoy a film at the theatre with they're family.

It's just too much... Much like so many other over priced commodities that simply enhance the quality of the lives we all live.

Maybe I'm just drunk and talking out of my ass, but its how I feel...

Make the experience affordable, and people wont feel the need to simply steal it for free.

It's their own damn fault things have gone down the way they have. Maybe next time they'll (hollywood) consider the fact that even the poor are entitled to being entertained for a reasonable price, and perhaps they'll make such things more affordable to those who dont have the means to pay Hollywood's inflated prices on a regular basis.

The sad thing about all of this is, when movies only cost 5 dollars to go and watch back in the day, I spent nearly 60 a month to watch all of the movies I was interested in (popcorn and soda included.)

Now days.... I spend about twenty a month to watch only "one" film. And then I download all of the films I'm not as excited about because its just not worth the money otherwise.

Lower the prices, and you'll find that I'll be willing to spend much more money on the same product.

Keep trying to financially rape me to merely be entertained for a few hours of my long and often boring life... and I'll give you the finger.

Given, I'm likely drunk and talking out of my ass right now, but it truly is how I feel.

Not so cheers:(
pro

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:24 am

Ridiculous. Every last bit.

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:38 am

protilius
mix the problems the industry and government lay on the people and then add on shoty qaulity products...if the industry did not remove the right of return I would still be buying new products but when right of return was dropped there is no reason for me not to do everything i can to protect my money, even if I bought retail packages more I would only buy them used as the current media industry is shot all to hell.

When you look at downloads on a world wide scale you can se the most thats lost is a CEOs paycheck spread over years and because thats so minicluse to the whole industry that wants instant profits its not going to help any title to sell 10-20% more in a year.

I'l buy what I like but I refuse to pay top dollar for crap.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:49 pm

Indeed it is! I care as my life depend on it.

Pirates sell a DVD only at 5$ each, still they manage to profits more than a billion dollars... how do they do it ? Shocked

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:11 pm

nice to see that privacy is still top priority Rolling Eyes

i love that some judge who prolly doesnt even know how the internet works has the power to allow this to happen...
viacom pricks

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:24 pm

It's not copyright infringement if used for educational or research purposes, RIGHT? if one's not using it to profit on Ebay and stuff, and if it's only a partial copy of the dvd, such us dvd's than it's not copyright infringement. I've looked into that law. And there's ways around it, and if privacy can be held with psyhiatry and law, and etc. than it should be kept. I could care less really, Canadian laws are very protecting for things like that, but I do like my personal privacy in what I do. Went to a private school, have a private phone number, a private home address, sure I like to keep my privacy and will look more so into some laws that protect that privacy of home computer ip addresses as well.
Aren't your lawyers telling you any of this? Don't you have a business lawyer. Are you just getting other people into using their own research capabilites and brains in to doing their own research on this stuff or is this all for real? Very curious.

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:44 pm

i simply LOVE the fact that you guys have SSL now!!! THANKS HEAPS Cool

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:59 pm

bliixx wrote:

Ridiculous. Every last bit.

QFT, it's getting out of hand.