your country

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:50 am

It's always the leaders.

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:52 pm

Koops23 wrote:

Patriotism is just another word for Nationalism, or Fascism. No one need feel proud for being a citizen of the country of their birth. Do I feel proud to be an Australian? No. I feel lucky , yeah, sure, but proud? No.

Too many governments take advantage of their population's simple-minded pride in their country to achieve dark ends. Arrogant pride in one's own country sounds a lot like the old "My make believe friend is better than yours." That is, ridiculous.

Patriotism, like any fundamentalist doctrine, is evil.

Ok, so it has gone instantly back to the present government. Again, that wasnt the question. And your right - no-one NEED feel proud. It's not compulsory and that's the point. Luckily in our society it's not compulsory. Which only makes your Nationalist/Fascism analogy somewhat nonsensical.

Is it really arrogant to feel pride in your nations achievements? Is it ridiculous to want your country to strive for independence, thru' the ballot box (Che i aint!), and to contribute something good to the world? How can it be negative to be positive about your people?

As i said before i think it's disheartening to hear this from the future of our planet.

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:42 pm

I think that some people confuse the "patriotism" with the "nationalism".
That's because they confuse the "country" with the "nation".

"Country" is the native land that you live in and work.
"Nation" is a system of beliefs, symbols, tradition, etc, that expresses a number of people.

I think that in a country can exist many nations peacefully. All the people have the right to live at every country they like. And when a war comes, all the people, and all the nations that live in that country, have the right or the obligation to defend their country.

Cause all the wars that took place in the world, where wars for land. The're isn't a war in the hole history that was made between two nations because of their differences at the culture, religion, etc...
Though, in many cases, politics, and leaders, try to persuade the people that wars happen to "defend" the nation, so as to hide the true reason that a war happens: land, money, power.

So, I think that every human is a patriot, becauses he doesn't want to lose his land that he grew up, lives in and works.
Also, I think that a patriot should only defend it's country, and not to attack to an other country.

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:50 pm

I consider myself patriotic. I'm from the United States, and although I don't agree with everything our government does and etc etc, I'm proud to be an American -- from 1776 on, we have a legacy. Although I do feel it has been slightly tainted over the years, and that the current administration has done nothing to preserve it -- there's something about being born and bred in the US that turns on this switch of pride in me, and I'm not afraid to tell people, either.

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:48 pm

Good for you, sara. Wink

I dont think it's possible to agree with all your (or indeed anyone's) government does however, it's foolish just to see them as evil doers only. I mean you dont see marchers carrying banners because there hasnt been a war or because unemployment has fallen by 30%.

What i'm saying is remember all the things you went to and attended growing up. All the college football games or trips to the diamond to see baseball an' having a 'dog, the 4th of July, every Halloween party or fare. Christmas, Thanksgiving. If you've been luckier than me an been to the Big Apple AND seen thru' it's ripped pants and seen it's bare backside. Those are the things that should be linked to patriotism. That's what defines you as a culture, a nation and a society. This applies to any country, BTW. This is the American version. Or is it......?

Like the UK, the USA is multi-cultural. There will be a lot of people wanting to say in response to this that it wasnt like that for them (Whites included!) They'll have their own memories and events that are equally important to them but i believe the principle is sound.

You should be proud of who you are because basically you're stuck with it. You made your country and your country made you.

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:09 am

[quote="Koops23"]Patriotism is just another word for Nationalism, or Fascism.

Those three words do lead in a direction; patriotism can lead to nationalism, and nationalism can lead to Fascism, but I don't think you will find anyone who will agree that patriotism means the same as Fascism. Please consult a dictionary or better yet an encyclopaedia.

I do not consider myself wholly a patriot of my country or wholly not. (I am from Canada)

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:36 pm

I'm Braziliang and I'm not proud of my country, meanly 'cause of the way most of people here are accommodated with the actual situation, and by this I mean social inequality. The poor are accommodated to be poor and so it's hard to see a poor person who studies really hard to got a well paied job. Those who have the money just ignore those who are starving to death and the government is so corrupted, not just in the way of stealing money, but too on putting people there who don't have the capacity to do the work that is given. The only solutiong is to educate the whole country, but why should rich and selfish politicians lose theyr votes?
To complete, there are so few who are conscious of this that what we do is just like nothing front to the whole country....

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:13 am

I think my country is great when away for 3 months at a time in amsterdm.I miss where i am from and my british way of life even though my country has changed so much since i was born;i still long for lazy sundays; roast on low and a pint in the beer garden with hardly any traffic.I sound so old im 45....am i patriotic idont know,i know i will stand up for freedom and everything it stands for...thankyou..

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:24 pm

SoDaSeeD wrote:

I'm saddened that so few people feel any warmth about their country.

What are countries, beyond arbitrary divisions of mankind, locking the lot of us into an "us vs. them" mindset and subsequent predatory behaviour?

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Why does it always go back to government? The question wasnt 'Are you supportive of your present government' The question was 'Are you proud of who you are and the nation to which you contribute'.

Because the actions of your government and past governments, are the actions of your "fatherland". There is no distinction possible, because no distinction exists.

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It's demoralising to say the least that most folk consider it negative to be patriotic. It's not about being proud of your country but more about being proud of yourself.

In which case you're not talking about patriotism, as patriotism (as you can pretty much guess from the name) doesn't have f-all to do with pride in yourself or your people. It's all about pride in your country & putting the needs of your country above anything else. Since the needs of a country is defined by its government, patriotism, in a nutshell, means putting the needs of your government before then needs of anyone else, be it yourself, your countrymen, foreigners or your damn pet.

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I'm a believer that there is far more good and pleasant and honourable things in the world than bad.

I don't want to disillusion you, but still.. You might want to acquaint yourself with corporate capitalism.

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And as far as conspiracies go they are primarily invented to sell books and make some shrewd people lots of money from other people with gaping voids in their lives.

What are you talking about?

It's very tempting to call some of you on being psychopathic racist c*nts, considering you apparently think you get glory-by-association because your community in ages past didn't f**k up too badly, while you get no guilt-by-association because your community of the present is a body of murderous thugs from Hell. Very tempting. But I'll try to resist the urge, because I'm sure the mods don't want a flame war.

Whatever. In my not so humble opinion, Rabies is preferable to patriotism. Because at least rabid people really can't help themselves.

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:39 pm

I believe in the ideas my country was founded on, but I don't really agree with a lot of the places it seems to have lead us as a nation. That leaves me with somewhat of a conundrum when asked questions like this. I think disconnected put it fairly clearly though in the end

disconnected wrote:

What are countries, beyond arbitrary divisions of mankind, locking the lot of us into an "us vs. them" mindset and subsequent predatory behaviour?

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:31 pm

I'm very Patriot of my country Australia!

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:59 pm

AussieTom wrote:

I'm very Patriot of my country Australia!

On ya tom I'm with you matey

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:14 pm

trollster wrote:

AussieTom wrote:

I'm very Patriot of my country Australia!

On ya tom I'm with you matey

Thats good to know that im not the only Aussie on this forum.
+1 rep matey!

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:06 pm

Disconnected wrote:

I consider myself a patriot, though my allegiance is to the peoples, not the bit of dirt they happen to live on. I won't fight to promote or protect their interests, because it isn't their interests, but rather the interests of a few manipulative megalomaniacs. But I will fight & die to protect their physical safety, if need be. I'd lay down my life for their political safety as well, if only they wanted to be free. But they don't, so it would be a waste of my life.

You're the best DC!

"I may not agree with you, but as a fellow citizen, I'd die for your right to your opinion".

I'm a patriot in the fact I like the thought that America was based on being "The Land of The Free", and that it's always a fight for what the definition of "free" is. Sure, we might not have the most lustrous, stainless nation ever, but it's something worth working on. Way I see it, America is one of the youngest nations, so we're always developing our history. There are many places that beat us in some places, but one thing is for sure; we're great in the competition for most corrupt country (though not winning by last survey)! Wink

I want to travel abroad one day, though I'll probably be homesick, it would be great to see the world and experience other cultures firsthand. Like others say, it's hard when you're kind of poor... there are student loans out there for colleges, but who wants to finish in so much debt... well, might be the best choice if you want to see the world... but that's off topic.

Point is, I guess I'm somewhat patriotic, though somewhat disinclined to show it.

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:32 am

patriotic aussie!!! Australia is the home land.
i love it.. fly the flag.. oz .. oz .. oz .. oi .. oi .. oi ..

make love!!! not war ppl