isoHunt tells court why Hollywood is wrong

Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:00 pm

nice one
keep up the good work

Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:42 pm

Quote:

The top ten is reflecting what you the user does, Isohunt has no control over that.

Isohunt is responsible for all content it displays.

Quote:

Yes there is. Its called the DMCA and SecretSquirrel.

Fantastic job they're doing. BRB, I'm gonna go download a bunch of movies illegally. OH, my bad, you can only download torrent files from isohunt! I forgot. That's bulletproof right there.

Quote:

By your post count we can all tell how much time it is likely you have spent on the forums, if was any length of time worth mentioning you would be well aware of the level of fakes associated with aXXo torrents.

Everyone's a noob somewhere. And, with the aXXo torrents that distribute DOM Player files... then it's not copyright protected, but it does happen to be malware, and that's so much better.

Look it's fantastic that ubuntu is the top seeded torrent on isohunt. Guess what, I own a video store and in the front row we sell the latest shitty Owen Wilson movie, but three rows behind that it's all kiddie porn.

I totally respect that a legal battle is being fought that's going to set the precedent for how information is shared over the internet. And I'm on your side, I just think someone has to play devil's advocate every now and then. If you're really fighting for the freedom of information and not just your ability to get free movies, stop bashing the MPAA. They're just pissed off because people are getting free movies, don't take it personally.

Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:44 pm

And I'm not saying ubuntu is like a shitty Owen Wilson movie, I'm just saying Owen Wilson is shitty.

Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:57 pm

My favourite and the most relevant bit is where you say that you didn't create the plaintiff's problems and removing isoHunt will not remove the problem.

That couldn't be closer to the truth. People will always pirate in any way as long as the benefits outweigh the costs. So why don't they stop focusing on this side of piracy and start thinking about their side. The: people will not buy the content if the costs outweigh the benefits. Start making your content more beneficial then a pirate copy and you'll beat the problem.

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:57 am

sbfpat wrote:

Quote:

The top ten is reflecting what you the user does, Isohunt has no control over that.

Isohunt is responsible for all content it displays.

Economics 101: supply and demand. We supply metadata, copyright holders are free to request takedowns and they do. Top searches reflects demand, we can't change what people want. Stop mixing separate issues.

sbfpat wrote:

Quote:

Yes there is. Its called the DMCA and SecretSquirrel.

Fantastic job they're doing. BRB, I'm gonna go download a bunch of movies illegally. OH, my bad, you can only download torrent files from isohunt! I forgot. That's bulletproof right there.

We cache .torrent files from elsewhere, and .torrent files themselves are links to actual content on BitTorrent swarms. Do feel free to write to MPAA and confess your sins though, they will gladly shut you up with however much the statutory damage is (if you are in the US). I encourage you to do so if it makes you feel better.

I wrote:

...we do not want it to be used for copyright infringement against the wishes of copyright holders, we have a long-working Copyright Policy and relations with them (large and small, except the MPAA)

Emphasis and quote mine.

sbfpat: Learn how to read before trying to be a devils advocate.

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:06 am

sbfpat wrote:

Guess what, I own a video store and in the front row we sell the latest shitty Owen Wilson movie, but three rows behind that it's all kiddie porn.

First of all, that's big of you to admit, hope they'll arrest you soon. Secondly, are you really saying giving information about an item but not the item itself, and for free, is the same as selling something in a store? And are you really saying that copyright infringement, something many people partake in, is the same as child pornography? That's saying public intoxication is the same as rape. On a side note, did you know Isohunt actually tries to keep the porn out? I don't mind a devil's advocate, but I sure hope for the MPAA that they have a better one.

About the case in general, I read a good part of the declaration, and I must say that to me the best defense is in the 'ext:torrent' example. Search for something on google, add 'ext:torrent' to your query and you get the exact same files that isohunt serves available with a single click.

I don't know how copyright infringement can be stopped, but this is quite clearly not a proper way to stop it, and also it won't be very successful, so why waste all the court time and effort - even if you win. Intimidating end users as they have done before is more warranted and also has a better chance to change the pirating attitude.

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:24 am

If they truly believe Isohunt and torrents are for nothing other than stealing, then it should be obvious at that point that they choose to remain ignorant to the subject. I hear a lot about how people over 50 have greater technology gaps, and most judiciaries are well past that age bracket. The idea that something can be so diverse is not realistic, it must be an engine that serves one direct purpose. Downloading is always their position, and downloading copyright = illegal, so search engines, clients and servers = criminals.

I remember being online before Napster was even around. People would exchange files through dialups on a regular basis. MP3's didn't exist, so everyone would fill their drives with .wavs of their favorite songs. I can't even think about how long before that there were open FTPs posted on forums. How people would sit downloading shows for months from their friends over low bandwidth modems. I don't think downloading is anything new, and if you create content on a medium that can be easily converted to data then you accept it is to be publicized. Often, this is what many artists/producers/directors intend.

And then they throw a huge fit when it works really well because they feel like we're stealing for viewing or listening. It's greed, and there's usually a lot of lawyers to help it masquerade as a victim. I can only imagine how many, many, many more p2p users emerged to share files after finding out they could do such a thing through hearing about it in tabloids, magazines, articles, newspapers, newscasts and jokes. It's not going to remain an issue of theft so much as an issue of how the internet has changed a lot of things.

In conclusion: I hate lawyers. Kick some ass, isohunt.

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:07 am

way to go on managing an arguement so early Razz

can I just say, I am AWARE that some of MY not isohunt but MY Use of bit torrent is indeed for illegal files partly why a petition might be a bad idea(the other reason is it could be percieved as ishunt be a centralized hubb) anyways I download files illegally but I dont believe im wrong. Not even deep down in in my heart.

How can I make such a statement? Because I beleive that ISOHUNT mininova ALL torrent sites, and others (joox) etc they are all putting pressure on ALL of the creative industries. Pressure to start playing nice. I used to buy all the cd's overpriced playstatiopn 2 games, most of the time I was dissapointed. I felt robbed. And dont talk to me about demo's for games and crap like that..there is no difference between a game demo and a railer for a film..both misleading.

I have spent my time giving these bastards my last pennies, do they lower there [prices in appreciation? Do you think that if isohunt and other places didn't exist they would reward us???/ hahaha I dont think so.

I placed a simple question to someone the other day, when I asked the question: in setting up your new pc, wow it's gonna cost you like $700 in software alone. I posed the question(and remember the mpaa and the big companies say we are losing them soooo muh money) If you had the choice and you could download nero0 from a torrent site, or you could buy the FULL version on digital download for $5 what would you do??

We both agreed $5 would be wo0rth it, would be worth not risking a virus infected file etc. It's pocket change..but at the same time I dont know about the rest of you but it doesn't take many of them b4 my pocket is burned out. But if it did cost so much less, the sales would go up and up..it's kinda blatently obvious and the money would roll in. And for once even the consumer would be happy. but no instead I go looking for a video editor for my machine the other day, despite the fact that this video editor was superceded many times over now..it's getting old..it was $299

How the f**k does someone like me afford that? My copy of windows got chewed up in a bad cd-rom drive who foot the bill for that..microsoft? NO me 95 f**kin quid for a KEY. Now you tell me who has who by the bollocks here?

Back to my original point....all the gigabytes i have downloaded films and games..most end up in the recycle bin and thats the truth. If I had paid out to go tothe cinema to see most these films i'd be sick to my stomach.especially as I can afford to do it so rarely. Same with the games..most are crap and wont get more than a demo play from me before they are out the door. I have been enabled by downloading of having SOME way of safeguarding MY wallet and MY money. because no one else cares..certainly not the mpaa. If I really like something I will often by it. But I will wait until it has dropped to a price that I can afford, and defintaley wait for the "lunatic" prices to go away.

What I am doing is wrong in the eyes of the law..well since when have we all agreed that the law is moral just and ethical? I consider myself in a fight, along with many others. Not to rip off all I can but to put pressure on people to make things fair. To understand if you are gonna ram things down peoples throats and make them want those things..then if they dont have the money they will ge them anyways. One shoe doesn't fit all and some of us just dont have the money to make such mistakes with our purchases.

I will stop cause I could go on, but PLEASE dont tell me what I know,dont tell me I know I am doing wrong. Because I know nothing of the sort. When the game is played fairly I will take my seat at the "lawful" table. Until then I reserve the right to think for myself. And I think I am being ripped off.

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:26 pm

I read the first 20 pages of your first linked document. I ran out of time at work to read the rest. I really liked the strong argument you made stating that you should think of your site as "Google" and how a search that produces results are not warranted to the owners of Google. Google didn't write the porn that I look at, the creators did.

Good example using Phantom of the Opera. Another good one would be downloading an operating system such as Ubuntu. The argument is that people going to your website to obtain the linux based operating system are doing so because it will download faster from multiple sources than one.

Well said guys,
-X

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:54 pm

IH wrote:

...The freedom of search engines and linking are the fundamental principles of freedom of speech, to take it away is to end the internet and democracy as we know it. .

yep no more Smile

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:22 am

I dont really imagine i'll see any of the replies if someone quotes what i say on this thread, so i'll try and keep my post neutral Razz

Everyones fighting everyone on this thread when the real enemy is the MPAA.

Anyway, i just want to say, i managed to read all that was linked too and i just want to say thank you. You have a much stronger case than the MPAA and if, by some crazy reason, you dont win, then there should be an investigation into how shit the system is.

I personally feel comfortable with not buying the things i watch/listen to. If i like a band that much ill go see them live, so they get my ticket money (Which is becoming double the price of there CD)

If IH needs names of supporters on a petition\survey, you can count me in. I'll gladly stand by my favourite site on the internet, no matter what.

PS: I love mods who literally own stupid posters. Im looking at you OG Razz

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:30 pm

Why are they trying, I mean Isohunt is a search engine but for .torrent files, hell if Google started listing .torrent files the MPAA would try and fail

BitTorrent is file sharing not file stealing, I mean its as if everyone who shares files and goes to each others houses and gets movies, music, etc from one another you cant stop that cause it would cost to much, and the mall is like Isohunt everyone meets there to see whos got what, but you cant sue the mall because its not theyre responsible for whats happening. If they didnt want it to happen they'd go to the mall and ask for people to stop instead of suing the mall who is just letting everyone meet there or w/e.

If my analogy makes any sense to anyone Ill be surprised
my point: dont blame isohunt or other .torrent search engines

@ jugsbunny, i agree. Ive dled full games through torrents that taken like a week to dl and within a day got rid of them because i was unhappy with them, and demos only so good. Im just saying to pay 50$ for a game just to be unhappy with it is not worth just like with movies and music why pay 15$ for a music album or movie and be disappointed with it and trash it the next day. I mean i dont have that money, i live in an economicly depressed area so no jobs hell i was lucky to get one this year maybe and it only lasts six weeks if i get it. I know the US is a capitalist country thats great but for what its worth we dont wanna pay a bullshit amount for something we may not like even though the media makes it sound like its the end of the world if you dont buy it.

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:43 am

....oh yeah that's really helpful guy above me....

and for anyone not paying attention you can go to google type anything followed by the word torrent, and get torrent results for it. In the end this will become a blatant attack on the technology as a whole.

[Edited in by mod:]
You know it really occurs to me at this point... maybe a visual aid of some sort is in order.
You know since they can't understand how it all works.. pull out some crayons and a chalk board and take them to school...

edited by me: why change my post to say exactly what I had said?

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:09 am

the MPAA can file all the lawsuits they want. If they change laws in the United States the Internet will not change internationally. If they down a site then one will pop up to replace it. The internet is a true democracy (which the US doesn't represent anyway) and it is not going anywhere.

Of course I'm not suggesting IsoHunt's fight isn't a fight worth fighting. I wholeheartedly support you. George Bush has made a mockery of your country and one more battle won in the face of tyranny is one more step closer to the freedoms the US is supposed to represent. (and btw if the US is so free why did Reporters without Borders rank them no. 48 for freedom of the press, Nicaragua ranked higher)

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:22 am

If Fords don't promote speeding why do speedometers display speeds well above what any of the posted speed limits in the world are? IMO it is a great analogy.