When Will The World (properly) Wake Up?

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:45 am

a.steidl wrote:

I'm of the opinion that the world's oil crisis will hurt us all much more severely, much more sooner, than global warming...
When oil runs out

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net

a.steidl wrote:

..IMHO, It is mostly natural processes. We just helped it move a little faster...
It's a never-ending cycle, ...

many many years ago we were worried about the next ice-age, and now its warming
it hasn't been a steady rise since the "creation" it's been a cyclic event
did man purposely do all this in an attempt to stave off the next ice-age and this over compensation is now bringing about the global warming?

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:48 am

http://isohunt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=128683&highlight=global+warming

A good read.

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:38 pm

I don't think human are in any way capable of stopping the earth of doing anything no matter what they do, what they build, what they stop or what they start. Nothing will be big enough, strong enough, or small enough to stop it.

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:26 pm

I'm just gonna throw my 2 cents in and say that I watched an episode of Penn and Teller Bullshit, love the show found all the episodes here. In this episode they showed that the average temperature around the world fluctuated from time to time due to the sun's solar cycle. In other words when the sun had more solar flares and what not the temperature was hotter then when the sun was less active. They had a chart showing all of this and the effect of greenhouse gasses produced by people had little to no effect on the temperature change and believe it or not most of the carbon dioxide in the air comes from plants and decaying organisms and the rest of us(ie people) only contribute to a very small (single digit)percentage of the green house gas released into the atmosphere. May I also remind you that the scientists who claim global warming were also talking about another ice age about 40 years ago.

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:20 am

Quote:

May I also remind you that the scientists who claim global warming were also talking about another ice age about 40 years ago.

I'm not sure that you understand thermodynamics and how it effects the climate. One possible scenario: As the glaciers in Greenland continue to melt adding significant amounts of fresh water into the north atlantic. As a result this decreases the salinity level of the north atlantic thus possibly stalling the Gulf Stream. Now if you don't understand what the gulf stream is/does; It brings warm water from the indian ocean around the tip of africa and then up towards greenland. From there, when the water reaches a certain temperature it then sinks and travels back towards india through the lower depths of the oceans.

Sinking is not exactly the appropriate term, pushed is more like it. What happens is that the large amounts of salt combined with the lowering temperatures forces the water down, due to the salt's buoyancy. Now all of this warm water that is brought up from the indian ocean is the single largest factor that keeps the northern hemisphere a temperate climate.

This is how Global Warming can lead to cold weather and possibly and ice age.

Most plants create oxygen not carbon dioxide. That's basic middle school biology. Photosynthesis is the process where the chlorophyll in green plants uses (eats) carbon dioxide and uses the nutrients that it needs and produces oxygen as its by-product. A vast majority of that photosynthesizing happens in the world's oceans that contain enormous amounts of algae. Next to that are the forests in the north parts of the world ie Canada and Russia. Specific numbers exist for what percentage of the world oxygen comes from each of those areas that I mentioned.

I am curious as to which episode of Bullshit you are referring because I know that Penn is a well known skeptic but I am pretty sure that he's not an global warming denialist.

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:32 am

bah...ppl need to stop bitchin bout global warming and climate change and what not....i say an eye for an eye.

Humans are the only ones wo have gone out of their way to make the planet the way WE want it, well its time for mother nature to bitch slap humanity across the face Cool

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:08 am

[quote="dunn.hatani"]

Quote:

This is how Global Warming can lead to cold weather and possibly and ice age.

I thought global warming is an increase in temperature by

1. melting of glaciers in northern hemisphere
2. the release of ever increasing amounts of CO2 through the use of petroleum products which then traps short-wave infra red radiation reflected by the earth's surface causing green house effect.

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:39 am

I do agree that we have had an impact on the earth and global warming is an important issue. This thread reminded me of a George Carlin rant from years ago. Here's just part of it:

Quote:

"There is nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are f**ked. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We’ve been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we’ve only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we’re a threat? That somehow we’re gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that’s just a-floatin’ around the sun?

The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles…hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worldwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages…And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet isn’t going anywhere. WE ARE!

We’re going away. Pack your sh*t, folks. We’re going away. And we won’t leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. The planet’ll be here and we’ll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet’ll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance."

That wasn't meant to trivialize the problems we are facing, I just thought it was an interesting take on the matter. Obviously, the earth will survive; it is our habitat on the earth that is in danger of being destroyed. I was doing some research and found a report by the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which I will paraphrase confirming that global warming is now “unequivocal” with more than 90 percent certainty that human activity has been the primary cause. The report also says that global warming is likely to continue for centuries, and that it is already too late to stop some of the serious consequences it will bring—even if mankind could somehow hold the line on greenhouse gas emissions worldwide starting today. It only stated that we might be able to slow things down a bit.

As far as your question, asp,

Quote:

I thought global warming is an increase in temperature by

1. melting of glaciers in northern hemisphere
2. the release of ever increasing amounts of CO2 through the use of petroleum products which then traps short-wave infra red radiation reflected by the earth's surface causing green house effect.

According to experts, if enough cold, fresh water coming from the melting polar ice caps and the melting glaciers of Greenland flows into the northern Atlantic, it will shut down the Gulf Stream, which keeps Europe and northeastern North America warm. This could cause a full-blown return of the last ice age or a "little ice age" that would disrupt worldwide weather patterns leading to extremely harsh winters, droughts, worldwide desertification, and crop failures.

Unfortunately, I believe as long as there is money to be made while polluting the planet and not enough money to be made in saving it, things aren't going to change much. Sad

Sorry for the long post Shocked

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:54 pm

I've already made my opinion on this clear on other threads along these lines, but I'll leave you with some proof about global warming none the less

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:01 pm

Erulin wrote:

I've already made my opinion on this clear on other threads along these lines, but I'll leave you with some proof about global warming none the less

LOL

+1 for that Smile

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:30 pm

For sure this subject causes all sorts of discussion...much quite negative [whether you believe it is happening or not]...it is hard to believe though, that human 'civilization' in its' vast urban and industrial sprawl makes absolutely no difference. The Ice Fields of the North [surrounding that pole] are getting smaller....the white which reflected sunlight is being replaced by blue sea...which will absorb the sunlight....as we will see this happen [apparently quicker than was thought only a few years ago]..not just there but everywhere we think of year-round snow/ice cover...global warming from the suns rays not being reflected from such vast areas anymore could accelerate the trend far beyond human intervention. This does not mean Death to our race....250 million years ago this world was hotter [than we will get to], yet had a staggering array of creatures flourishing. As even countries like the U.S.A. finally get on the Global Warming bandwagon...is it possible that we could do too much..too quickly...and bring upon the World another Ice Age?....in our current overpopulated state of affairs that would be more of a Katiclyism[?} So I suppose it is OK for we in the 1st World[?] to do our part slowly [we do of course especially in the U.S.A. and here in Canada use a shameful amount of energy/resources compared to the developing world] as our rather small individual changes may be a better way to go. Rather like Russia and China....Russia tried to go to a democratic government quickly...previously unknown crime of all sorts flourished....people whine at China...yes they aren't Perfect...who is...still 'Red China' yes....but for those as old as me [51] and older...I can remember no trade with them,...they ALL wore the same generic cheap looking army clothes. Back on point though [sorry if that rant bothered you], we can only do what we think we should....but watch the news over the next few years...if the polar ice field does disappear it will be terrible news for many low lying countries [Holland, Florida and many South Pacific Islands for example]..this alone could cause significant crises around the world. So I'll try to say "Hope not" and not really be sarcastic.....but you probably wouldn't think I meant it otherwise. Honestly I don't think I did,..and I hate Sarcasm....thanks to a few pricks I had the displeasure of working with in the past 30plus years of factory work...disappearing [the factory work that is] faster than Global Warming is happening!!!....but that's another story. If anyone can comment/express your views on that I'd be pleased to hear from you. John

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:52 pm

Okay I know I haven't really contributed much on this topic but this happens to be an area I have been studying intently of late. I think it can be summed up first simply ("man did it"), then elaborately ("'God' did it");

Simply; we must break the inner logic prevailing "western" thought, the notion that we can live with the dichotomy of a political ideal of democracy (ensuring equality and thus abundance) paired with capitalism, which is the exact inverse when applied to economics - for it requires scarcity, and the perpetuation thereof.

Thus, we produce technologies that are then made massively available and "convenient enough", and burn 'dem fuels, because they are scarce, thus ensuring profits.

But that is just the pseudo-political element of it, just one part of the rubix cube, so to speak, and heavily assumes at least a significant portion of what we are experiencing now is man-made.

Elaborately; And I'd wager that it's relatively a rather small portion, if in fact humans are contributing to it at all. Research has been made available that it seems our other planets in our solar system are experiencing climate changes.

To me, more than any other thing, this implies that we are desperately in need of a reevaluation of our place and significance in the universe. A reevaluation of epic proportions. I have comprised (not yet submitted) a hypothesis that it could be possible that massive extinction-level events (from which mankind may have emerged 340,000 years ago) may be exponentially speeding up. As demonstratable by this graph (scroll down a little if need be, and stfu I know it's wiki but oh well there are thousands more of em on the net), it's certainly possible; and if the implications are precise and correct, then we are soon due for one, whatever it is. At this point I'd gladly point you to theories and ancient calendars graphed by procession of the equinoxes.

But that's not exactly a study for your average Earth citizen.

Point is, as before, change is the spontaneous - and universally prevalent - law of the observable universe. Without it we could not have evolution, and furthermore without it this universe would be nothing more than astounding amounts of helium atoms (if the big bang is correct, or close enough).

So, that said, it can easily be deduced, and scientifically proven that something is about to happen. What, just as much so. That's all I'll say for now. In any case, it is the will of the universe, or so it would seem. It is also erroneous, audacious, and ignorant of any mere human to produce conjecture that any of their inventions or intentions have any lasting detrimental effect upon the earth; we exist, thus we must have been contrived by some element, or by some long string of probabilities (possibly set in motion by something) and we may be naturally occurring organisms. I simply cannot perceive any level of logic that states that what we are doing has any such detrimental effects on such grand proportions. What seems so to us, is obviously from our short-sighted understanding of the macrocosm and of course our hard coded DNA resilience and perpetual and incessant bitching over whether or not we will endure. What is the universe, if not long periods of seeming stability on levels human minds can observe and calculate, periodically distributed with brief intervals of complete change, reevaluation and evolution/mutation. Tell me, I'm curious.

As for humans waking up to this... well they won't. Or at least I can't conceive it, unless in this "event" that may occur (or be occurring) we "evolve" or "mutate" in proportion and as needed to whatever the event entails. This society is based upon scarcity, which applies too, to information. Information, we all know, doesn't come cheap. And the unification of all branches of sciences and humanities is nothing more than a pipe dream, long since discarded (renaissance, anyone?).

Renaissance. I find that term apt. Laughing

Well those are [some of] my thoughts. Enjoy.

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:57 pm

Check out anything on the H.A.A.R.P. project

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:49 am

Although pollution is a real problem, global warming is not a real issue. Ever hear of climate trends? thousands of years ago the earth might have had a temperature change, but who recorded it? Where are these people basing their comparison on?

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:04 am

LionOfTheLost wrote:

Although pollution is a real problem, global warming is not a real issue. Ever hear of climate trends? thousands of years ago the earth might have had a temperature change, but who recorded it? Where are these people basing their comparison on?

Scientists can tell the previous temperatures of our climate by locking at rocks, sediment layers, and the thickness of ice.

Yes, Global warming and global cooling are both natural cycles, what you should be worried about is it happening to fast and the environment not being able to adjust to the rapid changes that ARE occurring. Of course also the stopping of the NAC and the gulfstream are both very, very bad things. A simply course in marine biology and the chemistry of the ocean will explain all of this. That's what you need to be worried about.