Burqas banned in France?

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:17 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/06/23/france.burkas/index.html

So Sarkozy wants to ban burqas. He doesn't want to make them illegal, just ban them from public places so that women would be forced to remove them. Quote from the article: "The problem of the burka is not a religious problem. This is an issue of a woman's freedom and dignity. This is not a religious symbol. It is a sign of subservience; it is a sign of lowering. I want to say solemnly, the burka is not welcome in France," Sarkozy told lawmakers.

I may be an atheist, but this is appalling. Those women aren't being forced to wear burqas. It's a choice that they are making, and asking them to remove it would be like asking any devout Christian to strip naked. I find it unbelievably ironic that Sarkozy would say that this is "an issue of a woman's freedom and dignity." By banning burqas, he is, in essence, taking both their freedom and dignity.

Any other thoughts, opinions?

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:21 pm

weirdobeardo wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/06/23/france.burkas/index.html

So Sarkozy wants to ban burqas. He doesn't want to make them illegal, just ban them from public places so that women would be forced to remove them. Quote from the article: "The problem of the burka is not a religious problem. This is an issue of a woman's freedom and dignity. This is not a religious symbol. It is a sign of subservience; it is a sign of lowering. I want to say solemnly, the burka is not welcome in France," Sarkozy told lawmakers.

I may be an atheist, but this is appalling. Those women aren't being forced to wear burqas. It's a choice that they are making, and asking them to remove it would be like asking any devout Christian to strip naked. I find it unbelievably ironic that Sarkozy would say that this is "an issue of a woman's freedom and dignity." By banning burqas, he is, in essence, taking both their freedom and dignity.

Any other thoughts, opinions?

Maybe the woman in his life don't like burka's. What's the old saying behind every man is a woman. Or Something?

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:02 pm

I suppose he could always try encouraging them show their face but ultimately it should be up to those women.
I would however agree with having the face uncovered in high security areas such as airports for obvious reasons.
Thats about as much as I think on that one.

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:37 am

pacino23 wrote:

I suppose he could always try encouraging them show their face but ultimately it should be up to those women.
I would however agree with having the face uncovered in high security areas such as airports for obvious reasons.
Thats about as much as I think on that one.

Got to agree with you on this one. Security all over the world is a huge issue. I for one would feel a lot safer. For all you know it could be a suicide bomber - can't see the face etc. Won't be long and the rest of the world will be wanting the same. As for these women, if it is such a major problem then maybe they should consider staying in their own countries where they BLEND IN. Lol

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:54 am

the fun things about custom is that sooner or later it gets replaced by another one.

In India , a huge delegation came to the English Governor and argued it is their custom to burn to widows on the funeral pyre of the deceased.
The Governor said : we have nothing against that , only our custom is to hang those who burn women.

So ,i say if the french would hang the husbands/fathers of those women who wear burqas , it would rapidly change that custom.

Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:46 pm

I can't believe the responses I'm hearing. You guys really think it's ok to oppress people based on religious beliefs?

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:25 am

weirdobeardo wrote:

I can't believe the responses I'm hearing. You guys really think it's ok to oppress people based on religious beliefs?

They're oppressing themselves - FYI most of them actually don't wear their burka's, just like the men don't wear their dish dash when they travel aboard. If you go into their country then you HAVE TO RESPECT THEIR CUSTOM and comply to their rules regarding dress code - in Saudi especially, so why can't they respect and comply with the country they are visiting? Would you like to wake up to the prayers of a mosque every morning between 4 / 5 and then continuously for 3 times a day? The line has to be drawn somewhere!!!!

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:18 am

Pacino has a point but the reality is that areas as banks etc I would be apprehended and subdued if I entered with a crash helmet a balaclava or any other item that hid my face.

The issue made is unfounded and I think Sarkozy is a loser but I am English and probably biased in my opinion.

Most women that wear a burka seldom go such places alone anyhow. It is common to see them sit patiently whilst a male member goes into a bank etc. For strict religious and ethical reasons most airports and security agencies will assist without any public embarrassment or ridicule if they are aware or asked. many passport control areas will assist with a private screening for these people upon request at a check in counter.

Drawing a line is more about tolerance and attitude from all sides.

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:36 am

I'm South African, so I'm sure you've all heard about our CRIME RATE. So I do tend to be extremely aware of my surroundings and things I can't see, i don't trust. Drawing the line for me would be my line, my tolerance and my attitude. Got to watch my back if no one else will.

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:59 am

I used to think in a similar manner until I saw a long program on just this subject, and many of the women that wear them whether it be because they know no differently or truly believe it to be so, are actually empowered by the damn things. So it's a matter of personal choice.

That choice however, I do believe they should be allowed to make without anyone's interference.

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:07 pm

heh , the issue here is not that french are oppressing the poor arab women , but that the arab men are oppressing the poor arab women and the french are trying to help them , at least on french territory.

and those of you who defend the burqa , i wish you to be reborn next life as an arab woman.

nah , even better , you could be born as an Indian widow , and be burned alive on a funeral pyre.

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:24 pm

Pef wrote:

the issue here is not that french are oppressing the poor arab women , but that the arab men are oppressing the poor arab women and the french are trying to help them

I could just as easily say that the American media oppresses models and starlets, or strip clubs oppress their dancers. The thing is, they're all making that choice. As long as they still have the ability to make that choice, it's dishonest to say that they're oppressed.

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:44 am

i think it is wrong to force them to remove their burqa . but i can see what people are saying about high security areas and all that terorist stuff.
choniboms wrote" if it is such a major problem then maybe they should consider staying in their own countries where they BLEND IN. Lol"
i think this is total crap many burqa wearing muslims must have been born in france where do they go? i think that was a racist thing to say ,was it meant that way? theirs no need for any racisim here.

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:58 pm

I think that banning burqas is absolutely wrong. I think anyone who wishes to conceal his face should be allowed to unless there is a law forbidding such behavior to the whole population. I do not find it inconceivable that women would choose to conceal their face.

pacino23 wrote:

I suppose he could always try encouraging them show their face but ultimately it should be up to those women.
I would however agree with having the face uncovered in high security areas such as airports for obvious reasons.
Thats about as much as I think on that one.

I would ask you why should they show their face in airports ? Does seeing peoples' faces increase security ? and if you think it does please state how

I mean if it's a suicide bomber, shouldn't he get caught at the regular security scan.

They have scanners that can see anything under your clothes, dogs, metal detectors, I don't see the utility of seeing the face.

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:13 pm

PHaeTHoN wrote:

I would ask you why should they show their face in airports ? Does seeing peoples' faces increase security ? and if you think it does please state how

I mean if it's a suicide bomber, shouldn't he get caught at the regular security scan.

They have scanners that can see anything under your clothes, dogs, metal detectors, I don't see the utility of seeing the face.

Because you need to see the face to guage clues. Looking nervous, sweating, praying to themselves are all clues.
I am actually trained on how to spot a suicide bomber and can tell you it is actually an important thing. Would you be just as comfortable if someone boarded a plane wearing a ski mask?