Could You Kill? An Ethical and Personal Question.

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:04 am

I was in the Army, even though I would prefer not to kill, I guess if sent to war, then I would have had to.

Protection of ones family is another reason, which I would be prepared to use lethal force.

Assassination? Pass, let some other idiot do it.

I think though, if I ever did have to do it for whatever reason, I still would feel bad about taking another's life, no matter how bad the asshole was.

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:09 am

Yes kill you now...lol....SO make sure one of this...see your back now...dduada.lol

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:14 am

Metalbird wrote:

Yes kill you now...lol....SO make sure one of this...see your back now...dduada.lol

If you said that to me, and I thought you were serious, I would of course defend myself, just hope I don't have a pistol on me when you do.

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:21 am

on that context yes omegha...why you need a pistol..i got bomb now...lol kidding you...This topic is funny lol....But good try amigo...i am not offending...i don wan kill you...i love jesus...and humanity and more life on earth...

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:24 am

Metalbird wrote:

on that context yes omegha...why you need a pistol..i got bomb now...lol kidding you...This topic is funny lol....But good try amigo...i am not offending...i don wan kill you...i love jesus...and humanity and more life on earth...

I didn't think you were serious. lol Its a little too public to announce a murder, if you are planning to get away with it. Laughing

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:28 am

Omega50 wrote:

Metalbird wrote:

Yes kill you now...lol....SO make sure one of this...see your back now...dduada.lol

If you said that to me, and I thought you were serious, I would of course defend myself, just hope I don't have a pistol on me when you do.

Thing is though its not as simple as that anymore at least in the UK. More often than not, if the victim injures the attacker in self defense its the victim who is punished and threatened with jail.
There was even a case a few years back where a burglar broke into somebodies home and the scared owner shot him. The burglar then sued the victim in a case that clearly should have been tossed out straight away.
The law states that you cannot inflict harm on somebody in defense of personal property. Fine but defending your home is a different matter entirely.
People have the right to safety in their own home. If I dont know you and you break into my house, I have no idea of your intentions. If I have kids in the house or wife (whatever) I will protect them by any means. The way I see it if you choose to invade somebodies space then you suffer whatever consequenses that follow.
I dont see how the government can punish people for this. None of these politicians have ever been put in this situation and their street is guarded 24/7 by armed police. And if they think somebody is capable of remaining calm and civilised when a complete stranger is stood in their living room, they need some f*cking therapy.

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:31 am

Yes yes this is what isohunt..community with Fun and humour..lol..smiles...Generous...

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:52 am

pacino23 wrote:

Thing is though its not as simple as that anymore at least in the UK. More often than not, if the victim injures the attacker in self defense its the victim who is punished and threatened with jail.
There was even a case a few years back where a burglar broke into somebodies home and the scared owner shot him. The burglar then sued the victim in a case that clearly should have been tossed out straight away.
The law states that you cannot inflict harm on somebody in defense of personal property. Fine but defending your home is a different matter entirely.
People have the right to safety in their own home. If I dont know you and you break into my house, I have no idea of your intentions. If I have kids in the house or wife (whatever) I will protect them by any means. The way I see it if you choose to invade somebodies space then you suffer whatever consequenses that follow.
I dont see how the government can punish people for this. None of these politicians have ever been put in this situation and their street is guarded 24/7 by armed police. And if they think somebody is capable of remaining calm and civilised when a complete stranger is stood in their living room, they need some f*cking therapy.

In ireland we are supposed to be seeing a law introduced soon, which allow homeowners protect themselves from intruders, without fear of being prosecuted later. Its a great law as far as i am concerned. I don't think its been passed yet, but it has overwhelming support, so it should do.

Quote:

The changes would make it clear that householders were entitled to use legitimate force in self-defence. They were under no obligation to retreat and could stand their ground and take legitimate steps to protect themselves. A precise definition of the term legitimate force has still to be decided on before the legislation comes in.

The new laws would afford them legal protection against criminal or civil proceedings as a result of their actions.

Some people will argue downsides to it of course. Like if a kid sneaks onto an orchard to steal some apples, you could argue if they are shot, this law will protect the homeowner who shot them. Though it does state that the term legitimate force term still has to be decided on.

I think the good of this law will FAR outweigh any downsides.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-laws-to-allow-for-force-against-home-intruders-64817.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0127/breaking61.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/intruder-law-will-increase-burglary-violence-2035803.html

I certainly would have no problem if i had to kill someone to protect myself or my family. Outside of that, no.

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:38 am

pomchop wrote:

cbilljones wrote:

I just do it cause its fun

What exactly do you consider fun about it? I just watched the movie Unthinkable. You might like it. It was the best I have seen in a long time for suspense.

Un-f**king believable Shocked

- I have just watched it twice after I put it on disc. 1 for rep for the heads-up on this movie. It is the ultimate in Allegorical Hypotheticals.

The movie Unthinkable asks what most of us cannot, "Could I kill?

The completely necessitated execution of another person; a killing; an Assassination; by torture and interrogation, or whatever means deemed necessary is - as I put to everyone at the "top 'o' the hour", justifiable if it is going to save a life or lives. Could I kill for self-preservation - as I have put it? Not even, ever, lose a nights sleep; for FUN? I tried hunting once after years of competition shooting, and what I did made me sick; it was counter, and still is counter to what I believe. I sold all my guns - including a 9mm sidearm that was once owned by Mussolini, and bought a very nice acoustic guitar.
I have rolled it over many times in my head what would happen to the poor bastard(s) that ever hurt my little sister, my younger brothers and I agree along with my father that any harm comes to anybody - direct family, and closest family, well… it would be would be a bad idea.
As for "Taking a Person's life or Persons lives" to save many, well… it is a horrible though, but I gotta go with the doctor from MASH on that one - it is in the initial question at the bottom… Harsh eh?!

It was a never a question or ask anyone to question if they could take a life - as a lot of confusion has been brought about by this - of course I could, I am completely capable of killing someone, I have been given my own personal 'skill-set' after two and half decades of training - everybody can kill somebody else, but the point was "COULD YOU TAKE A LIFE?", do you think you have "The Balls" as "Cockpuncher" from Steven Seagal's the Onion Movie would ask, to take a stand against some injustice, perceivable threat - present or future , to do it?

The reason I mentioned Ethical in the same breath as Personal is that this is not a grey area. We all of us already have our morals and morality, we use this skill-set everyday, but when push comes to shove you either will or you will not do it if the time calls for it.

What I think needs to be realized with a vast majority of people is that we are not all equal. Some people are absolute maniacs, while others are the absolutely innocent brimming child in the corner. Saying you could not do an act because "you couldn't live with yourself", or, "I couldn't I sleep at night", is selfish, even if it meets the needs of 'the many'.

As for the acoustic guitar… it has been one of many over the years, and now I collect royalties for movie sound tracks thank-you.

Cheers... Cheers

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:31 pm

I wouldn't kill for fun or to assassinate someone.

I do answer the door with a gun. My girlfriend and I even sleep with one. My girl can strip and clean 'em, too. She absolutely loves the gun range except for the hot shells down the shirt (indoor gun range) . When we can afford it and have the time, we'll be getting our CHLs.

-

Quote:

Texas Governor Rick Perry has signed a new state law that will allow Texans to use deadly force "without retreat" when defending themselves inside their homes, cars and workplaces. The law will go into effect on Sept. 1, 2007.

...

"The right to defend oneself from an imminent act of harm should not only be clearly defined in Texas law, but is intuitive to human nature," states Gov. Perry on his Web site.

Source: http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2007/03/29/texas-to-enact-deadly-force-self-defense-law.htm

Can use deadly force against anyone trying to commit criminal mischief or even trying to flee with my stuff.

Quote:

Deadly Force to Protect Property

"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect his property to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime, and he reasonably believes that the property cannot be protected by any other means."

"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to prevent the other who is fleeing after committing burglary, robbery, or theft during the nighttime, from escaping with the property and he reasonable believes that the property cannot be recovered by any other means; or, the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the property would expose him or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. (Nighttime is defined as the period 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise.)"

Can use deadly force for another person's property:

Quote:

Protection of the Property of Others

"A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect the property of a third person if he reasonably believes he would be justified to use similar force to protect his own property, and he reasonably believes that there existed an attempt or actual commission of the crime of theft or criminal mischief."

"Also, a person is justified in using force or deadly force if he reasonably believes that the third person has requested his protection of property; or he has a legal duty to protect the property; or the third person whose property he is protecting is his spouse, parent or child."

Can use deadly force if anyone else is in danger:

Quote:

Defense of Another Person

"A person is justified in using deadly force against an attacker to protect another person if he would be justified to use it to protect himself against an unlawful attack and he reasonably believes his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the other person from serious injury or death."

Source: http://www.self-defender.net/law3.htm

There are some stipulations but... Very Happy

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:55 pm

As someone in the military like Pac I have to agree with him. Think of it like this, if a grenade lands in a room with your friends in it would you jump on it? You want to say yes but you never know till that moment it happens.

Would I kill to save a family member? Yea who wouldn't?
For my country? Wouldn't be a good Marine if that was a no.
To save my life? Selfish but yes.
For food? No I would starve more then likely
For money? Depends on who it is. If it's a regular guy, no

There are a thousand examples. Am I capable, both physically and mentally? Physically yes, mentally...I hope so but till you take that life you just don't know do you?

Is killing ok? Yes in some cases.

Just my 2 cents. Oh @ Trollster, I love gordan. He has no fear to yell at people, not even a marine in season 6

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:18 pm

a.steidl wrote:

I believe that I would kill someone, someone who poses a threat to me or the people I care for. [...]

As far as being willing to kill someone, I believe that anyone can be "pushed" to that. The important part is, can they live with their decision to kill or not kill? Killing another human being has been described as a life-changing experience, by many.

Here if Florida, we have what they call the stand your ground law, aka the Castle Doctrine. Florida Castle Doctrine [...]

not being a Florida born and raised native - i'm starting to love it here
i've always wanted my own castle, and how cool is this law?

could i kill? == yes
would i kill? == yes
have i killed? == not yet, and i hope not ever -
but if pushed to that point i'd like to think that i could/would
edit
poll options:
Personal Preservation : yes
Assassination : maybe
Taking one persons life to : save many others? maybe... maybe not
It is both yes and no : basically, need more info before one can make a definite statement
Feel that if you choose to : huh?
It is something that I need, would like to, or just plain feel like doing : uh, no? - kill the baby yes, but just like-to OR feel-like doing doesn't fall into the context of the storyline...

Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:00 am

The question is actually a more interesting one that would appear on the surface. Depending, ofcourse, on the angle from which you choose to look at it. The spin, in other words that you put on it.

Everyone seems to be agreed that to kill in self defence or for the preservation of the innocent is quite in order. Even to the extent of disagreeing with any law that interferes with it. So we'll leave that alone seeing as it's not really a choice.

Here's the question that really interests me on a moral and ethical level. It is understood, for the purposes of this discussion, that you have the necessary training and skills to do the job. Now then, it comes to your notice that a certain person is a real bad ass evil amigo. A drug dealer, say, who uses uses the drug money to fund terrorism. The activity requires him to achieve such a level of political cover that he thinks nothing of starting a side business in human trafficking, bringing in 15- 16 year old girls from India, Malaysia, Turkey etc (It really does happen, I've dealt with it). Some of them virgins cause there's really big bucks to be made from guys with AIDS who have been mislead to believe a virgin will cure them of it. Can you imagine what price they put on their lives?

So we're talking about the worst possible kind of scum. If there's anything worse out there, I don't know about it. He's got the politicians, and by default the cops, in his pocket. Now is it right to kill another human? You do not have the legal right but do you have moral right? And considering the fact that you have the right kind of training, perhaps a moral obligation?

Before you yell yes, you might like to think about it. The answer is not really a yes and no, one, no matter how much it may seem that way. The world we live is not so simple. But lets hear what you think about this hypothetical (?) situation before I try to explain.

If you truly wish to look at the question of justifying a killing from a unique perspective, you may like to pick up Fyodor Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment . The topic of this thread is nearly the exact subject matter of the book. If you are into eBooks, the folks at Gutenberg have the Constance Garnett translation, a decent edition: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2554

Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:58 am

live and let live or live and let die