Immigration Laws: A Coming Trend or Coming to an End?

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:40 am

Quote:

Neb. city votes to restrict illegal immigration

By JOSH FUNK (AP)

FREMONT, Neb. — This small Nebraska meatpacking town has joined Arizona at the center of a national debate about illegal immigration after voters approved a ban on hiring or renting property to illegal immigrants, but an expected court challenge could keep the measure from ever taking effect.

The American Civil Liberties Union already has promised to file a lawsuit to block enforcement of the proposal roughly 57 percent of Fremont voters supported Monday.

"In a community of 25,000, it's going to be hard to take on the whole country, and it will be costly to do so," said Fremont City Councilman Scott Getzschman, who opposed the measure but said city leaders would support the results.

Fremont's vote is the latest chapter in the tumult over illegal immigration across the country, including a recently passed Arizona law that will require police investigating another incident or crime to ask people about their immigration status if there's a "reasonable suspicion" they are in the country illegally.

The Fremont measure will require would-be renters to apply for a license from the city. Officials must refuse to issue a license to applicants found to be in the country illegally. The ordinance also requires businesses to use the federal E-Verify database to ensure employees are allowed to work.

The city, which is about 35 miles northwest of Omaha, has watched as its Hispanic population surged in the past two decades, largely due to the jobs available at the nearby Fremont Beef and Hormel meatpacking plants.

Supporters argued the measure is needed to make up for what they see as lax federal law enforcement. Opponents said it could fuel discrimination.

Linda Nafziger said she voted for the ordinance because she doesn't think the community should be supporting illegal immigrants. But she acknowledged the measure won't end illegal immigration.

"They'll just move somewhere else and be somebody else's problem," she said.

Trevor McClurg said the measure is fair because it's aimed at people who aren't legally in the U.S.

"I don't think it's right to be able to rent to them or hire them," McClurg said. "They shouldn't be here in the first place."

Some residents worry that jobs are going to illegal immigrants who they fear could drain community resources.

Kristin Ostrom, who helped organize opposition to the measure, said she was never convinced of that. Fremont's unemployment rate matches the Nebraska rate of 4.9 percent, and both remain well below the national rate of 9.7 percent.

"It's unfortunate that the majority of voters didn't understand that we really don't have an illegal immigration problem in Fremont," she said.

The Hispanic population in Fremont, including both legal and illegal residents, surged from about 165 in 1990 to 1,085 in 2000, according to census expert David Drozd at the University of Nebraska at Omaha. He said an estimated 2,060 Hispanics lived there last year.

Communities that have passed similar laws have struggled to enforce them because of legal challenges. Hazleton, Pa., passed an ordinance in 2006 to fine landlords who rent to illegal immigrants and deny permits to businesses hiring them. The Dallas suburb of Farmers Branch also has tried for years to enforce a ban on landlords renting to illegal immigrants. Federal judges struck down both ordinances, but both are on appeal.

The ACLU of Nebraska promised to sue over the Fremont measure even before Monday's vote.

"Not only do local ordinances such as this violate federal law, they are also completely out of step with American values of fairness and equality," said Laurel Marsh, executive director of ACLU Nebraska.

Kansas City, Mo.-based attorney Kris Kobach, who helped write the Arizona law, worked on the ordinance in Fremont and has said he thinks it could withstand a court challenge. He is also running for secretary of state in Kansas.

How well will these laws hold up in court? I'm pretty sure that we'll soon see more.

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:14 am

Its going to be popular among red states, I dont see it being anything more than that.

I will just blow over in a few months.

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:45 am

voters approved a ban on hiring or renting property to illegal immigrants,

The one line says it all. kinda makes me think of my sisters father who years ago refused work on the trains as it was for the blacks.
15 years later he complained he couldnt work on the trains cause the blacks had stolen all the work......

I have one word Bollox. When everything is ok give the shit work to anyone who will take it. When things get tough scapegoats need to be found. things are gonna get worse so i shall vote that this is a new trend and i do not think it will blow over yet.

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:41 pm

This is a new trend. Hard working people in America are fed up with the crime and the burden illegal aliens are putting on the social services. We are not talking a few thousand here. We are talking 12 to 20 million illegal Mexicans with a sub-standard education. There are so many now places are using Spanish instead of English as the spoken language. Think of the disparity if you combined Germany with Greece. Germans would be working their butts off to make it go right and those from Greece would be wondering why the government isn't doing more for them.

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:04 pm

pomchop wrote:

This is a new trend. Hard working people in America are fed up with the crime and the burden illegal aliens are putting on the social services. We are not talking a few thousand here. We are talking 12 to 20 million illegal Mexicans with a sub-standard education. There are so many now places are using Spanish instead of English as the spoken language. Think of the disparity if you combined Germany with Greece. Germans would be working their butts off to make it go right and those from Greece would be wondering why the government isn't doing more for them.

I love when Mexican women speak Spanish. Very Happy

Having a country with two languages allows you to become bilingual and continue to use your newly learned language. It's a really positive thing. I love diversity. It allows you to see how human you really are.

America has no one to blame but its politicians, voters and non-voters.

America has a large illegal immigrant problem because they haven't been properly enforcing/preventing illegal immigration. No barriers or borders can effectively stop humans. Gas stations don't have impenetrable vault like doors to guard their liquor. It's sad that they've let many families become well established here in America. That laxness became a beacon hope for impoverish, entrepreneurial, foreign persons. It just increased the problem many fold.

Anerica needs to stop with the "Drug War" already. There are so many things wrong with it, but it is one of the root causes of trouble in Mexico. Spend that money on social programs for Mexicans. Begin importing more goods from Mexico.

Quote:

Is Immigration Responsible for the Crime Drop? An Assessment of the Influence of Immigration on Changes in Violent Crime Between 1990 and 2000

ABSTRACT

Objectives. The idea that immigration increases crime rates has historically occupied an important role in criminological theory and has been central to the public and political discourses and debates on immigration policy. In contrast to the common sentiment, some scholars have recently questioned whether the increase in immigration between 1990 and 2000 may have actually been responsible for part of the national decrease in crime during the 1990s. The current work evaluates the influence of immigration on crime in urban areas across the United States between 1990 and 2000.

Methods. Drawing on U.S. Census and Uniform Crime Report data, I first use ordinary least squares regression models to assess the cross-sectional relationship between immigration patterns and rates of homicide and robbery among U.S. cities with populations of at least 50,000. Second, I employ pooled cross-sectional time-series models to determine how changes in immigration influenced changes in homicide and robbery rates between 1990 and 2000.

Results. In the ordinary least squares models, immigration is associated with higher levels of homicide and robbery. However, the pooled cross-sectional time-series models suggest that cities with the largest increases in immigration between 1990 and 2000 experienced the largest decreases in homicide and robbery during the same time period.

Conclusion. The findings offer insights into the complex relationship between immigration and crime and suggest that growth in immigration may have been responsible for part of the precipitous crime drop of the 1990s.

Source:http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/123341598/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:30 pm

California's nearly 3 million illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $9 billion each year, according to a new report released last week by the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a Washington, D.C.-based group that promotes stricter immigration policies.
Educating the children of illegal immigrants is the largest cost, estimated at $7.7 billion each year, according to the report. Medical care for illegal immigrants and incarceration of those who have committed crimes are the next two largest expenses measured in the study, the author said.

...

Jack Martin, who wrote the report, said Thursday that the $9 billion figure does not include other expenses that are difficult to measure, such as special English instruction, school lunch programs, and welfare benefits for American workers displaced by illegal immigrant workers.

"It's a bottom of the range number," Martin said.

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:50 pm

pomchop wrote:

California's nearly 3 million illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $9 billion each year, according to a new report released last week by the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a Washington, D.C.-based group that promotes stricter immigration policies.
Educating the children of illegal immigrants is the largest cost, estimated at $7.7 billion each year, according to the report. Medical care for illegal immigrants and incarceration of those who have committed crimes are the next two largest expenses measured in the study, the author said.

...

Jack Martin, who wrote the report, said Thursday that the $9 billion figure does not include other expenses that are difficult to measure, such as special English instruction, school lunch programs, and welfare benefits for American workers displaced by illegal immigrant workers.

"It's a bottom of the range number," Martin said.

I suggested that we spend money on social programs for Mexicans. It's not an issue. Funding positive things like education is not a waste of money. If you got hurt in Canada, I'm sure they'd take care of you. I favor goodwill over imperialism. If they're getting some medical benefits, more power to them.

Quote:

The Center for Immigration Studies estimated in 1995 that immigration costs us a net $29 billion a year.

That's from the same source you quoted.

Take a look at this:

http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm

It shows that $24 billion dollars has, so far, been spent for the year, but there are many costs that would be hard to include. Drug related convictions seriously hinder the ability of people to get work. Prohibition makes drugs valuable. We could save unheard of amounts of money by stopping the "War on Drugs." Not to mention lower crime and violence. I previously proposed that we use the savings on Mexico.

There are plenty of other areas that America wastes money. America has $13 trillion dollars in debt. What if it were the straw to break the camel's back? Who cares? Some idiot sh*t politicians already abused and overloaded said camel.

What types of jobs are they taking? If American citizens had these jobs, would the income of their families be enough for them to pay more in tax money than they currently benefit from?

It's not the illegal immigrants' fault. It's the companies and employers that are shafting Americans by not using American citizens. It's the greed of the companies - not the illegal immigrants. If they weren't giving them jobs, I highly doubt they would come over here just to start farming. Of course humans would bring their families or try to take care of them. They just illegally entered the country. They're not monsters.

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:17 pm

Greed is the issue. Getting people to work for low pay means higher profit.
If the companies that used this illegal labour were to be targeted then the problem still would not disappear but it would help.
I agree with Nick in that spending money to combat the drug issue is not the answer. If the same level of money was spent on investment in Mexico to educate the children and assist in building infrastructure etc that would do more good than harm.
I look at it this way.... Mexico is a beautiful country but its stability and crime are a major issue preventing the flow of people the other way around.
If Mexico were to be safe and stable how many USA citizens might move there?
The root problem is that one side has a lot to offer and the other side has little.

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:31 pm

American employers that hire illegals should get 30 days in prision and heavy fines for hiring illegals that come into this country. America is not under any obligation to feed, cloth, and educate every one that breaks our laws to come into this country. Mexico is a rats nest for organize crime, murder, poverty, and a sub-standard educational system. If Mexicans were such a valid asset they would not have to go to America. They would have created a prosperous country for themselves, especially with all the oil they have and the millions of dollars Americans give them every year in aide with no gratitude. The more you give the more they resent that you do not give more. America has hungreds of thousands of legal aliens come every year. If someone wants more diversity than that they should go to Mexico and live there. If you break Mexican immigration law you will be sent to prison for a long time. They do not allow foreighners to work there unless there is a special need or stay there without proof of substancial income. Despite what some may have you believe 25% of the California prisons are filled with illegal aliens for another crime other than entering the country illegally. We have 50 state and many are having the same problem. Arizonia has a huge problem with kidnappings, rape, theft, murder, and use of the social system. Many illegals are moing out of the state now because AZ is cracking down so the crime has moved to other states. Mexico is riddled with crime. It is out of control. In certain cities the police cannot even deal with it anymore so the military has had to come in to try and restore civility. These people do not all of a sudden become angels when they come into America illegally despite what some might have you think.

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:59 pm

Pomchop your points are very true but I see that aide being offered to a country where the system is basically corrupt doe little to help and only keeps those that are in power in place.
I think USA has wasted billions in aide and would rather see a shift in how aide funds were used.
rather than give money that seems to flow away like water i see an alternative.
If schools are needed in the border areas of Mexico then why not use that same money allocated as aide to pay for USA engineers builders electricians etc that at present have no employment and send them to the area to build these schools.
Two birds with one stone in my mind. Employment for many that need the income and suppprt for a country that USA wishes to help.

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:48 pm

That is a good idea Johnno23, though there is an old saying: You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.
We are having some of the same problems with our government as England is. They are in the business of 'maintaining problems' and not solving them at the taxpayers expense. We are 13 trillion in debt and projected 20 trillion by 2015. Something is going to have to give because I do not think we can sustain that kind of debt. I don't see that ending well.