How to force a country to change its "backwards" laws?

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:07 am

Quote:

Afghanistan has pardoned a woman who was raped by a family member but then jailed for adultery , a statement from the presidential palace has said, in a case that highlights deep concerns about women's rights in the country.

The 21-year-old, known as Gulnaz, had earlier been offered release from prison if she married her attacker and eventually agreed to this condition , but her lawyer said the release granted this week did not depend on her going through with the wedding.

Gulnaz was initially sentenced to two years in jail for "adultery by force", which was later increased to 12 years on appeal. She was given the choice of marriage or serving a jail sentence.

Came across this article and its one of those horrifying things you read or see on news, and think how can a country have these sort of laws! Truely outrageous to think that this kind of thing goes on in this day and age.

I know different cultures and religions and countries have their own laws, beliefs etc. And god knows alot of countries, mine included, have at some stage had maybe some stupid laws or injustices in the past that would be unheard of in this day and age. But at what point can you force a country for example to change its laws to conform to what is deemed just common sense in other countries? International sanctions? Is that even enough?

The only reason this particular case has come to light is due to the documentary that was being done on it. And the resultant international pressure that came about, which forced the afghan government, to pardon her(even though appears that there is an almost worse condition attached to said pardon, whether they deny it or not).

I really feel for the human rights groups and such, who spend their time campaigning and highlighting these cases in the hope of bringing about change. They must feel like they are banging their heads against brick walls at times. A story gets a bit of coverage(only one of the countless instances no doubt), theres some outrage and something may be done in some cases, but then once media coverage dies down again, its just back to as it was.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1203/breaking6.html

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/afghanistan/111202/rape-victim-marriage-adultery-afghanistan-pregnant-sexual-karzai-video

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:15 am

Sorry bazzer i cantr ead ur links because i know they will piss me off and im in a gd enough mood atma nd dont wanna spoil it, i cant understand such stupid laws these.... winds me up !!!!!!!!

pfft had a whole page wrote out ..... and the more i was typing the more wound up iwas getting ....pffft it pisses me off

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:31 am

"adultery by force" !! sheeeesh how many rapists are now heading to Afghanistan for extended holidays ..........

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:09 pm

I would seem that "common sense" is clearly lacking with the powers that be...

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:51 pm

I did hear about this, and I have to say it didn't surprise me at all.. I already know about these sort of things happening in quite a few different countries. It's harsh, I find it absolutely disgusting, but what can we do really...
Apparently, a lot of people signed a petition for this particular woman, which is wonderful, but it is going to make it a little harder for the next woman who has no media coverage, and gets no signatures....

It's really great to try to help a woman in that situation, but it isn't enough to help one woman who is in the spotlight. Do we even know how many women are currently already locked up in similar circumstances, ignored by the media..? People could have been signing a petition for them too, if they had known... How much harder for them to hear about the one woman who gets free, while they are abandoned..?

And why is it that we only care when it is happening at this exact time? We should have been signing petitions and protesting about it before this woman was locked up at all.. And hopefully, though I sadly doubt it, people will continue to petition now she is free... But we too easily forget, remember the other year when a woman was stoned to death for a similar reason..? Apparently not many people do, or they only remember now when they hear about this new incident.

I think too that the gov officials involved in such things, they probably have had enough exposure to other legal systems to actually doubt the good within their own, but it often doesn't matter what they know, it's all about how the public feel in that country... I have a feeling the gov officials in charge of this womans release were relieved that so many people signed petitions and demanded her release. We like to think bad about those governments, and ignore that it isn't always really them, it is the entire population of the country calling for these laws. It wouldn't shock me if that womans own mother, sisters, aunts etc thought she in some way deserved to be locked up for her crimes. After all, this is what they are raised to believe, this is how they are taught for all their years.. This woman herself may have in a way believed that she deserved to be where she was..

I suppose the best thing we can do right now is make sure people know about it all.. Especially remind them when it isn't present in the media, these things still occur, even though the news isn't talking about it... Because it is too easy to forget... And we leave so many women in a similar or worse circumstance, and then act like it is shocking and surprising when it comes to media attention for one woman... But its not shocking or surprising...
Our ignorance is...

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:04 pm

religion if used to help hold together or build a society can be a useful tool,you know don't steal your neighbors wife,land and belongings,don't lie because bad things can happen from that and be detrimental to the societ/community,don't take some tard and make him/her into something more than what they are/were and worship them,don't lie about your friends and neighbors,don't kill each other (very bad for starting a new community),respect old people,father and mother,etc they have likely been there done that,don't kill yourself overworking instead take some time for yourself.

then there's the food and hygiene rules and such.i mean if you don't cook some things properly they could kill you,trichinosis for example.

it's when they go to far with literal meanings and start forming a governments based solely on this type of shit that the problems start to arise.honor killings,beheadings for some trivial BS,imprisoning people for being raped,etc,etc.

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:56 pm

..i think the really bad part is if she resisted her attacker she would be in even worse trouble

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:08 pm

in societies where people are indoctrinated in the belief that life is temporary and that the suffering one goes through in this life is to be rewarded in the next is tits up. If Heaven is "Heaven" then there is no grade. I mean if one suffers a little and goes there or suffers a lot then they do not have a higher or better level of Heaven. It is non sensical and it even took us the Brits to wake up and have the Church do mass in English in the late 60's. we were still teaching in our schools that the Holy spirit would descend as a flame above the head of the new Pope as late as the 70's. So to answer the question "its gonna take a lot more than common sense" International Sanctions imo would only help convince such an indoctrinated society that through suffering they are walking the path to an eternal bliss. Basically a state run upon such religious beliefs are being strengthened by sanctions if I apply the above logic. The religious texts pertaining to Christ the Church Bible Koran and Torah all depict the path to heaven and the next life and none truly give instruction of leading a full and harmonious "This Life"
Education I think is the only true answer. Allow people to read write and have access to libraires and books.
To anser a question with a question we only need to look at how often even in our very recent modern history so many conflicts have had the destruction and burning of educative materials as books. For any group that wishes to subjugate the masses the denial of education is the 1st rule.

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:45 pm

Not surprised at all, only surprised they backed down. The bible and koran are very clear that when a women is raped she must marry her rapist. Its one of the commandments.

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:47 am

I think to really change the way a country works, you need to educate the youth of that country as they are the most impressionable of the population.
They will carry the message forward and pass it on to the next generation.

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:56 am

y'know i think that has to be the worst thing i've ever heard, but it's not.

did you know its a popular tradition to dress young boys in girls clothing and dance for older men. later they get the chance to have sex with these boys. Afghans say it's illegal and that it doesn't happen that often, but it does. it is called Bacha Bazi and it is despicable!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/11/19/us-afghan-dancingboys-idUSISL1848920071119

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:57 pm

While they were in "control" this practice died under the Taliban. Surprised

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:32 am

ironic, huh?

this thread title is also ironic. you shouldn't "force" someone to change as it makes you look as bad as they are. even if your ways are better, its best that they see it in that light as well.

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:57 am

killa1986 wrote:

this thread title is also ironic. you shouldn't "force" someone to change as it makes you look as bad as they are. even if your ways are better, its best that they see it in that light as well.

Thats kinda my point. Do you just let them continue to do as they please? Or do you try to "force" them to change them, with international pressure/sanctions etc. By your meaning, you just let them do as they please and hope they eventually see the wrong in said laws. What happens if they never 'see it in that light'? It just continues on for ever??

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:22 am

let me clarify, im not saying let them do as they please. im saying try ways of making them change, but not look or feel forceful unto others. believe it there are so many people out there trying their best to help those in need, and knowing not to cross the boundaries they are presented with. nothing ever lasts forever and nothing in those regions will. "force" is the wrong word to use.